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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to be angry about this - dd left out group/party

877 replies

Lago1 · 30/10/2022 01:15

So a bit of background, my daughter is a lovely, yet shy and reserved child, who has been dancing for a few years with a group of girls and has grown in confidence around them. One particular girl, she sees as a good friend and they share another hobby which they do weekly together. This morning at dancing she hears some of the others discussing a sleepover and asked in front of the mum if she can join and the mum says of course. She comes home excited and gets her things ready, then I received a text 15 minutes before I was due to drop her off saying I'm sorry dd doesn't want her to come. Now I know maybe she shouldn't have asked but it was nice to see her confidence and she would have not even considered that her friend didn't want her there and probably thought of it as an oversight. There were no excuses made, and not even any effort to try and protect her feelings in this all. I am so sad for her. Aibu to feel really pissed off?

OP posts:
Benjispruce4 · 30/10/2022 11:51

Absolutely with@shreddednips

WhatNoRaisins · 30/10/2022 11:52

Has anyone really seen positive results from forcing someone to accept the company of someone they don't want to. I'd have thought a sleepover is the last place you'd want to send a 12 year old when not wanted, girls can be very cruel at this age.

Benjispruce4 · 30/10/2022 11:53

I work in primary school. We have chn coming in with 10 party invitations in a class of 26. I give them back to parents to give out away from school. It’s awful watching the other children’s faces.

whumpthereitis · 30/10/2022 11:54

Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 11:15

I do respect her for honouring her child's wishes. The OP's daughter was NOT invited. She invited herself. That is not on. So the other child is forced into having her there when she clearly doesn't want to. How is that fair? She planned a sleepover with the girls she wanted there. Why on earth should that be upended because another child who was not invited tried to gatecrash?

Because it is kind? Because you have to do things to don't want to do so as not to upset anyone even though it ends up you being the one upset? The other girls being angry perhaps and not wanting to come if the Op's daughter attends? It upsets the dynamics. You wait for an invite and never invite yourself. Hard as it may be.

Agree fully with this.

The mother made a mistake, and rectified it. Forcing her daughter to include OP’s DD when she clearly doesn’t want to, on account of a mistake SHE made, is not ‘kind’. For a start, forcing people together rarely results in anything but a miserable experience, and imo the ‘be kind’ message is fucking noxious for girls.

I’d rather someone be comfortable with saying ‘no’ than feel the need to always put themselves in a secondary role behind others. If that makes me mean then oh well, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

MapleLeafForever · 30/10/2022 11:55

It sounds like your daughter sees them as friends much more than they do her. They aren't wrong for planning things without her, and it could well be that they'd never really consider that it's something she would feel particularly left out by, if she's not in their friendship group, so don't have a problem mentioning it to her.

I've been part of groups as a child and an adult, where you are friendly with all the people in the group, sometimes share lifts, maybe even occasionally do things with, but it's a relationship from being part of the shared activity. Some within that group would have much closer relationships with each other as well. Occasionally I've been part of a closer friendship within that, but usually I'm on the outside. And of course those groups do other things and talk about them even when part of the bigger group. Yes, it can hurt to feel that I'm not part of that when I might wish I was, but equally, I feel no entitlement to be included - just wanting to be included doesn't mean that they are being mean by not including me, or vice versa. I very often was lonely and looking for friends, so those groups seemed more attractive to me and I was more desperate to be involved, whereas others had more friends of their own outside it and didn't care whether they were part of those little groups or not. I doubt the people in the smaller groups would have known who might have minded and who didn't. The problem comes when someone assumes that they are close to some of the others or part of an established group, when really they aren't seen that way by those in the group.

And that might be what your DD is experiencing. She might want to be close to them, they might not dislike her, but they may not feel she is particularly close. It doesn't mean they won't respond to her invitations, but they don't have to include her. You can just stop inviting them if you don't feel it's reciprocal enough.

As adults, we meet people that we aren't specially bothered by, maybe mildly irritated by something they do or just not that interested, but don't dislike for any reason. Should we refuse any invitations that they offer, because we don't intend to become closer friends? Some people might think so, but I doubt most people do. They don't mind staying as friendly but not super-close acquaintances. Would you be less hurt if they rejected all the offers of lifts and activities with your DD, because they didn't see her as a really close friend? That sounds more hurtful to me.

OP goes on about how she always thinks of other people's feelings and can't imagine hurting anyone the way they've done, but I'm not sure letting a child invite herself where she isn't specially wanted is thinking about those people's feelings either. It's putting them in an awkward position, it's potentially spoiling a party they'd planning by having a changed dynamic that includes someone they aren't close to, it's making things awkward between a child and parent, etc. Your DD probably won't actually feel any less hurt by someone having to include her and going along to the party - it's the finding out that you're not close to someone you thought you were that hurts, however it's done. She will have to keep looking for friends that suit her more - these friends haven't necessarily done anything wrong by not wanting to be close to her (though they might be being mean for the sake of it - but you don't know that). They might just not like her all that much and don't feel close to her. Your DD can keep trying to find other friends that really do click with her, whilst still being on friendly terms with others. If you think that she is being socially awkward - the fact that she's still inviting herself along at age 12 suggests she doesn't really understand unspoken rules that well - maybe there are other social skills that she's lacking too. Or maybe they just don't like her loads, which is sad for her, but doesn't mean they are wrong. There will be other people who do, though, if she just doesn't click with them.

bewarethetides · 30/10/2022 11:56

Reading through this, I do wonder if the '15 minutes beforehand' is a red herring in terms of 'how awful' for the other mum to leave it that long. It actually sounds like you and your DD got home from the dance class/club and she immediately started packing to get to the sleepover that evening. In the meantime, I imagine the hosting girl and her mum were in their own car on their way back to their own house, probably arguing about the 'invitation' to your daughter who asked if she could come. And when the mother couldn't get through to her daughter about how awful it would be to rescind the belated 'invite', she made the call when they got home. That wouldn't be leaving it until the bitter end; that's just the timeline everyone was working on.

That being said, the mother should never have said your daughter could come 'this time' as arrangement had already been made. But it sounds like she was put on the spot and didn't handle it well. That's really sad, and it's a shame she couldn't convince her daughter to be gracious on this occasion.

Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 11:59

PurpleWisteria1 · 30/10/2022 11:50

YES sometimes you do have to do things you don’t want to do. You treat others with the same kindness you would like to be shown to you (or your DD)
It was a child who invited herself because it was being discussed around her. Some kids don’t have great social awareness yet and at 12 are still learning. An adult said ‘yes of course’ making that 12 year old really happy and excited that she was going to a sleep over. You do not tell that child they arnt coming when they are almost on their way round.
The other mum should have said not this time when the child asked. She is the adult here but is acting like a total wicked bitch.
The lesson should be to include rather than exclude and not to crush another child by stamping on their self esteem. The mother has basically said you are not liked. You are exluded. You are not wanted here. This is something the other child will likely not forget for a long time if ever.
I have a similar memory from the age of 8 with a friend- the feeling of hurt and rejection and I will never forget the tears of sadness from me and comfort from my mother. It’s awful.
The damage was done and the stage set when that mother told the 12 year old they could come.
Only cruel people step on others to get what they want when they want it and totally disregard a child’s feelings- treat them like a used tissue just so their own kid gets what they want like a spoilt brat. How about the mum teaching her daughter that you must be true to your word. That honesty and integrity mean something. That putting others first before yourself, before your wants, is sometimes the right thing to do.
Honestly, take me back to simpler times when people shows decency for one another and didn’t just look out for number 1.

Only cruel people step on others to get what they want when they want it and totally disregard a child’s feelings- treat them like a used tissue just so their own kid gets what they want like a spoilt brat

She wasn't invited. She wasn't invited for a reason. We do not know what that reason was. A used tissue?? Get a grip.

That putting others first before yourself, before your wants, is sometimes the right thing to do

No it is NOT. That is being a fucking doormat.

The other mum should have said not this time when the child asked. She is the adult here but is acting like a total wicked bitch

She at least tried to include the child by agreeing. She may not have kinown about the dynamics of the OP's child coming and how that would affect the night for her own child. A total wicked bitch?? Jesus you still sound like that 12 year old in your head. Get over it. That's life. You roll with the punches and you learn resilience. You don't always get what you want in life, you will not always be included. You cannot muscle your way in and fucking demand it.

Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 12:00

WhatNoRaisins · 30/10/2022 11:52

Has anyone really seen positive results from forcing someone to accept the company of someone they don't want to. I'd have thought a sleepover is the last place you'd want to send a 12 year old when not wanted, girls can be very cruel at this age.

Absolutely this.

Benjispruce4 · 30/10/2022 12:01

Grown women, indeed mothers should know better than 12 year olds. We have been there after all!

Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 12:01

whumpthereitis · 30/10/2022 11:54

Agree fully with this.

The mother made a mistake, and rectified it. Forcing her daughter to include OP’s DD when she clearly doesn’t want to, on account of a mistake SHE made, is not ‘kind’. For a start, forcing people together rarely results in anything but a miserable experience, and imo the ‘be kind’ message is fucking noxious for girls.

I’d rather someone be comfortable with saying ‘no’ than feel the need to always put themselves in a secondary role behind others. If that makes me mean then oh well, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

I’d rather someone be comfortable with saying ‘no’ than feel the need to always put themselves in a secondary role behind others. If that makes me mean then oh well, I’m not losing any sleep over it

100%

AltroVinoPerFavore · 30/10/2022 12:07

A party should be a celebration, not a chance to cement one’s social status and push out those you aren’t keen on.

Utter nonsense. No one is obliged to invite people they're not keen on.

There is no reason to think that the host isn't keen on op's daughter though. She just wasn't invited this time for whatever reason. That's life. Making out that it means the host is a bitch or it is about the DD at all will screw with her head.

shreddednips · 30/10/2022 12:11

I agree with PPs that the #bekind message is toxic, especially for girls and women, but surely there's a balance here? I wouldn't be insisting my child invited people they didn't want there, but I would expect them not to be mean by discussing it excitedly in front of the person. That's not an unreasonable expectation of 12 year olds IMO. Then nobody is a doormat but nobody has their feelings hurt unnecessarily either!

Hana89 · 30/10/2022 12:18

No advice really, OP, but I just wanted to send a massive virtual hug to you and your DD.
I had a very similar experience when I was 11 with a group of girls from netball except I asked in front of the other girl (Kate's) mum and my mum. Kate's mum said of course I could come, but my mum insisted we ask Kate, who just flat out said "No." and that was that! I remember feeling so hurt because I'd been listening to them discuss the sleepover for ages and they'd even asked me whether they should have pizza or McDonalds and included me in that debate so I sort of felt a part of things. Kids don't always have the best social graces and I think I was definitely a bit immature for 11 but I wasn't daft and I definitely asked in front of our parents because I figured they'd have to include me if a grown up said so!
It's a tough lesson to learn but I'm sure your DD will be okay.
Mum made the evening special with a film and popcorn on the sofa and we had pizza (which was my vote for the sleepover! Haha!) and I pulled back from trying to be Kate's friend which weirdly made me go up in her estimations a bit and the acquaintanceship became a bit more equal/neutral.

PurpleWisteria1 · 30/10/2022 12:23

Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 11:59

Only cruel people step on others to get what they want when they want it and totally disregard a child’s feelings- treat them like a used tissue just so their own kid gets what they want like a spoilt brat

She wasn't invited. She wasn't invited for a reason. We do not know what that reason was. A used tissue?? Get a grip.

That putting others first before yourself, before your wants, is sometimes the right thing to do

No it is NOT. That is being a fucking doormat.

The other mum should have said not this time when the child asked. She is the adult here but is acting like a total wicked bitch

She at least tried to include the child by agreeing. She may not have kinown about the dynamics of the OP's child coming and how that would affect the night for her own child. A total wicked bitch?? Jesus you still sound like that 12 year old in your head. Get over it. That's life. You roll with the punches and you learn resilience. You don't always get what you want in life, you will not always be included. You cannot muscle your way in and fucking demand it.

It’s NOT being a doormat to sometimes put others feelings before your own. The emphasis is on sometimes. And this was one of those times because an adult told a child they could come.
She could host another sleepover and not invite the other girl in the future but for this time, she’s invited her.
And to deliver the message with ‘your friend doesn’t want you to come’ is absolutely awful. The OP’s daughter saw her as a friend.
In our family we carefully consider others feelings. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Your family obviously doesn’t believe in that. From your comments it’s seems you believe in putting you and yours first regardless of how that makes other feel.
I suspect you are not alone and that makes me so sad.
Me me me, I’m first and I’m all that matters.
Thankfully most of my friends and all of my close friends and family consider others feelings and empathise with others deeply. No one I know personally would treat a child like this.
I can only hope that someone shows you kindness and empathy when you most need it. Because One day you will. I hope that that person wasn’t taught that being kind was noxious and that all that’s important is yourself.

whumpthereitis · 30/10/2022 12:38

It’s NOT being a doormat to sometimes put others feelings before your own. The emphasis is on sometimes. And this was one of those times because an adult told a child they could come.
She could host another sleepover and not invite the other girl in the future but for this time, she’s invited her.

Sure, but you seem to be working with the mumsnet binary, i.e that if someone has prioritized themselves in the one particular situation posted about, then that means they never have and never will prioritize others, ever. Which is melodramatic bollocks.

What constitutes ‘one of those times’ is open to individual interpretation. For all you or anyone here knows, this is one of the few instances where this girl has put her foot down and asserted her own preferences and unwillingness to make up for a mistake her mother made.

This is life. No one will be included in everything all the time.

can only hope that someone shows you kindness and empathy when you most need it. Because One day you will. I hope that that person wasn’t taught that being kind was noxious and that all that’s important is yourself.

I have no issue with kindness, but kindness freely and willingly extended. Forced kindness in the form of the ‘be kind of fucking else’ diktat is noxious however, and in fact isn’t really kindness at all.

Tbh, I have found being able to confidently say ‘no’, and prioritize myself without handwringing or guilt, has only ever served me well in life over the decades. That isn’t to say that I don’t ever do things for others, I do, but I do because I want to, not because I’ve been forced to, or emotionally blackmailed into it.

Lago1 · 30/10/2022 12:39

Wow, I'm suprised that the vastly different views. Everyone I've spoken to in real life thinks it's appalling behaviour. The kid is happy to have sleepovers / parties at our house but I'm obviously going to stop that.
The lack of manners or courtesy to call and explain from the mother, even after I'd apologised for the invite, which I did do at the time, is rude at best.
My daughter, although shy, isn't short of friends but wants to feel part of the dancing girls aswell, I will keep and eye but if we get repeat incidences of her being made to feel like shit, we will have to look at doing the hobbies elsewhere.
I totally get that the other girl has rights to and its just unfortunate how things have turned out.

OP posts:
Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 12:39

PurpleWisteria1 · 30/10/2022 12:23

It’s NOT being a doormat to sometimes put others feelings before your own. The emphasis is on sometimes. And this was one of those times because an adult told a child they could come.
She could host another sleepover and not invite the other girl in the future but for this time, she’s invited her.
And to deliver the message with ‘your friend doesn’t want you to come’ is absolutely awful. The OP’s daughter saw her as a friend.
In our family we carefully consider others feelings. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Your family obviously doesn’t believe in that. From your comments it’s seems you believe in putting you and yours first regardless of how that makes other feel.
I suspect you are not alone and that makes me so sad.
Me me me, I’m first and I’m all that matters.
Thankfully most of my friends and all of my close friends and family consider others feelings and empathise with others deeply. No one I know personally would treat a child like this.
I can only hope that someone shows you kindness and empathy when you most need it. Because One day you will. I hope that that person wasn’t taught that being kind was noxious and that all that’s important is yourself.

She could host another sleepover and not invite the other girl in the future but for this time, she’s invited her

She was NOT invited, she invited herself and the Mum agreed. That is NOT being invited.

Your family obviously doesn’t believe in that. From your comments it’s seems you believe in putting you and yours first regardless of how that makes other feel

I do not agree with making my children do something they do not want to do because it might upset someone else. If the child had been invited in the first place and my daughter decided to uninvite her, I would raise hell and insist she comes but this child as NOT invited for a reason and the sleepover child should not have her night ruined when another child invites herself. So my child has to roll over, and give in. Have a child there that she doesn't want there, that others do not want there? Why? To be kind? How is that kind to my daughter when all the other girls are giving her shit because this particular kid is going who was not invited because I am making her?
What happens when the uninvited child gets there? Will she be resented by the others because it has been forced upon them? It is not the right environment for a child to go to a sleepover when she is there under duress. I certainly would not want my child going anywhere she was not wanted. That is worse than not being invited in the first place.

Lago1 · 30/10/2022 12:41

Obviously I'm extremely glad my child did not go if not wanted but she needs to consider if this person is a friend, which I'd be inclined to say they are not, and dd needs to step back.

OP posts:
MNchickens · 30/10/2022 12:43

This reply has been deleted

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minipie · 30/10/2022 12:43

Well yes I agree with that OP. The girl has made it clear she doesn’t see your DD as a close friend, so your DD should focus on other friendships.

Theydoyaknow · 30/10/2022 12:45

Lago1 · 30/10/2022 12:41

Obviously I'm extremely glad my child did not go if not wanted but she needs to consider if this person is a friend, which I'd be inclined to say they are not, and dd needs to step back.

I agree with this. Maybe your daughter sees this kid as being a friend and it is not reciprocated, if this is the case, she does need to protect herself and step back However it could be one of the other girls calling the shots, you just don't know. At the end of the day it is very hurtful for your daughter BUT it could be a wake up call to evaluate her friendships.

SandraTeaspoon · 30/10/2022 12:47

That's not nice for your daughter. Hope she is ok

cairnsarethebest · 30/10/2022 12:52

even after I'd apologised for the invite,

Your Child didn't have an invite. She pushed in where she wasn't wanted with a mother on the back foot

ZeroFuchsGiven · 30/10/2022 12:52

You can tell by this thread which parents rock up to kids parties with uninvited siblings in tow thinking its ok, more the merrier, the host mum or birthday child wont mind if we invite ourselves.

And you can tell which parents have decent manners to not do such a thing.

ZeroFuchsGiven · 30/10/2022 12:53

I cant believe how many people are shouting 'uninvited' here, How can anyone be uninvited if they were not invited in the first place? Hmm