To think not everything is ‘misogyny’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

… and that the word is massively overused on here?

I’m getting quite tired of it if I’m honest, it feels like every other conversation the ‘misogyny’ card is whipped out and anyone who disagrees has ‘internalised misogyny’ (um no I just have a different opinion).

It’s becoming the ‘BeKind’ of feminism. Overused to the point it’s getting meaningless and irritating, and just used to ‘win’ any kind of nuanced topic without any proper discussion.

AIBU? 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Cuppasoupmonster but it clearly isn't as effective as you make out. The number of unplanned children born is huge - and that's the ones who were "surprised but OK with it" as opposed to "oh dear god no!"

According to one NHS trust, while "perfect use" of most forms of contraception are 99% effective, "typical use" are effective as little as 82% (condom) or 91% (pill). In a population that's a lot of unanticipated pregnancies.

I agree with Cuppa here. The argument that men are free from the consequences of getting a woman pregnant is just not true
So it's men who have to deal with the physical reality of pregnancy, the sick leave, the nature of birth, potential surgery

It's men who have to deal with postnatal complications

It's men who have to take time out of work because a baby has arrived and needs caring for 24/7

It's men who end up sacrificing their standard pay for a lower level allowance (and don't try to go on a tangent about shared parental leave because everyone I know, me and DH included, found quite quickly that SPL is not the norm, in fact it's unusual)

In the event an unplanned pregnancy is forced to continue and the relationship has ended/was never a relationship, it's the men who end up being the primary parent and the one the child lives

It's male non-resident parents who end up paying the majority of the costs that come with raising a child

It's men who end up having to sacrifice earning potential because they need a part time job in order to fit around school and childcare

It's men who take a hit on their pensions from large amounts of time out the workplace looking after small children

It's men who lose their long term earning potential and prospects because men are discriminated against for having children and the flexibility that requires

How long before we get the NAMALT argument/but women are mean to poor men/but society isn't actually systemically oppressive to women, it's just women don't like the consequences of their choices argument?

They dont face anything like the same consequences though, do they?

They aren't judged as being at fault in the sale way women are

I bet when you're judging women for having an abortion it never crosses your mind to judge the man.

Are you going to answer why you font care about the poor babies who were conceived through rape? Explain why you think they have no rights and their life is worthless?

Clearly @niceduvet is not going to answer the question about why foetuses conceived in rape are not covered by the ‘all life is precious’ rule.

No.

And neither will @Cuppasoupmonster

Because they'd have to admit it's not about the supposed precious life.

It's about judging and punishing women.

AKA mysoginy

Well I won’t because I never said that?!

You’re now talking absolute nonsense and just making stuff up.

Funny because you’re doing a great job of judging me on things I haven’t said and trying to browbeat me into submission.

Well in my case it was my fault I got pregnant. I was supposed to be taking the pill but I just didn't take it every day. I was careless with it and didn't care about having unprotected sex. I got pregnant. Is it misogyny to say that?

To think not everything is ‘misogyny’

My car wouldn't start on Sunday morning, misogynistic flat battery!

If you think it's misogyny or want it to be then that's fine.

(I took OHs car and told him to get my car battery out and put it on charge)

Essentially what happened to me, at 17. Sloppy and careless and just thought it wouldn’t happen. Certainly it was at the back of my mind that if it did I had the option of termination.

You said -

This is what I mean, it’s nuts! There will be pregnancies out there which are a result of rape/control, but there will also be a lot of pregnancies where the woman has assured the man she is on contraception and either isn’t or ‘forgets to take it now and then’.

I will be shouted down for even saying that.

You literally differentiated between abortion for rape and abortion for the contraception 'errors' of women.

You even acknowledged that it was controversial 🙄

Well they are different circumstances aren’t they? Did I suggest we should do anything to limit the choices of women like me who were sloppy with contraceptives? Or merely noting that’s probably how a lot of them happen?

No, that’s not misogyny… because not everything is misogyny.

HTH

yes the OP is clearly ridiculous.

Obviously not everything is misogyny.

But objecting to abortion being the choice of the woman, which is what the OP is trying to argue isn't misogyny, very clearly is!

@Cuppasoupmonster

You haven't answered my question as to what difference the reason the abortion is required makes though?

The result is the same.

So why does it matter?

Yes, I believe that the baby of a raped woman has value and worth and ideally has a right to life. That logically follows on from my pro-lfe stance. Note that I use the word "ideally" in that particular circumstance. Do I believe that in the real world a raped woman should be denied an abortion? The honest answer is that I haven't come to a settled view on that one. There could be an argument for the woman's wishes being taken into consideration - because the sex wasn't consensual.

However, It must be noted that the vast majority of those women who do decide to continue with their pregnancy after rape do not regret their decision to do so later on down the line and most devlop more positive feelings towards their baby as the pregnancy progresses. The need for abortion after rape should not be a foregone conclusion at all.

The number of babies aborted due to non-consensual sex is very, very low (less than 1 percent of all abortions). The vast majority of abortions are NOT due to rape or the fact that the mother would physically die if she continued with the pregnancy. Most abortions are for other reasons.

Also do you have any stats to back up your claim that a lot of abortions happen because women are careless with contraception?

If you are able to read the person I quoted, you would see that they said it is misogyny to "blame women for getting pregnant" and that's what my reply was about.

HTH

Well they are different circumstances aren’t they? Did I suggest we should do anything to limit the choices of women like me who were sloppy with contraceptives? Or merely noting that’s probably how a lot of them happen?

Why discuss the difference if you are not judging? You are making no sense. Do you think it's OK to sneer at women but not actually to ban abortion. So you can just judge?

You keep telling us you had an abortion, that is completely irrelevant to your ability to hold misogynistic views against women.

Horrific

Why do you hold women to less value than a foetus?

There could be an argument for the woman's wishes being taken into consideration - because the sex wasn't consensual
So women's wishes only matter when the sex was no consensual?

Or in other words if women have sex for their own enjoyment they better accept being forced to give birth?

@Eindaira

It's mysoginy to blame women and not men.

Why was your carelessness not corrected by the man?

Or is it ok for men not to give a shit?

I'm the one that's going to have to either carry a pregnancy and care for a baby, adoption, or have an abortion, so I feel like of course I'm going to care about my contraception more. A man can just ejaculated and leave and pay maintenance if any, why would they care as much?

@niceduvet

It must be noted that the vast majority of those women who do decide to continue with their pregnancy after rape do not regret their decision to do so later on down the line and most devlop more positive feelings towards their baby as the pregnancy progresses.

Not sure what source you've used to note that?

I would imagine (key word 'imagine' as I don't have data) that the vast majority of women who terminate a pregnancy that came about through rape do not regret that decision either.

Don't you think?

Note I'm not saying it's OK that men don't care, but objectively why would they? They aren't going to get pregnant and deal with that