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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think not everything is ‘misogyny’

905 replies

Cuppasoupmonster · 29/10/2022 16:11

… and that the word is massively overused on here?

I’m getting quite tired of it if I’m honest, it feels like every other conversation the ‘misogyny’ card is whipped out and anyone who disagrees has ‘internalised misogyny’ (um no I just have a different opinion).

It’s becoming the ‘BeKind’ of feminism. Overused to the point it’s getting meaningless and irritating, and just used to ‘win’ any kind of nuanced topic without any proper discussion.

AIBU? 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 02/11/2022 22:11

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:09

Monster - I guess it depends how you define "pro-life"...

You would prefer a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want to continue, and give birth to a baby she doesn't want to give birth to, which is forced birth.

So you are pro forced birth, no?

Pumperthepumper · 02/11/2022 22:11

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:06

No Pumper - this is not a joke. Many people are pro-life. We may not be statistically well represented on MN but there are plenty of us about.

That doesn't mean we don't empathise with the very real and hard issues around this topic or the difficult decisions people have to grapple with. And many of us aren't dogedly pro-life in all circumstances. There are exceptions obviously.

I personally don't agree that this makes us misogynistic.

No, did you think unborn babies had rights?

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:27

I don't believe that sex without any consequences should be a fundamental human right.

As mentioned above I'm talking about consensual sex between people with all their mental faculties.

monsteramunch · 02/11/2022 22:32

@niceduvet

I don't believe that sex without any consequences should be a fundamental human right.

So if you could rewrite policy, in an ideal world you'd want the law to say that girls and women couldn't have abortions if the pregnancy was a result of consensual sex?

Because that pregnancy is a consequence of the consensual sex, so they forfeit their fundamental human right to full bodily autonomy regarding that pregnancy?

Lookingforbargains · 02/11/2022 22:32

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:27

I don't believe that sex without any consequences should be a fundamental human right.

As mentioned above I'm talking about consensual sex between people with all their mental faculties.

Well, you’re living in a dream world, I’m afraid.

Sex regularly has many consequences. No one is pretending otherwise. Most of them fall on women.

One of those consequences might be having to decide on an abortion. Made all the more difficult by judgemental busybodies like some on this thread.

Pumperthepumper · 02/11/2022 22:32

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:27

I don't believe that sex without any consequences should be a fundamental human right.

As mentioned above I'm talking about consensual sex between people with all their mental faculties.

So what do you think the consequences should be?

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:39

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 20:37

EVERY woman knows that if you chose to have sex there is a chance that you might get pregnant!! That's what you, I and others sign up for when we have sex - that this might possibly happen. We all know that occasionally contraception fails.

I am referring here to consensual sex by people who have all of their mental faculties obviously.

I repeat what I said earlier.

MsFogi · 02/11/2022 22:41

Once women in the public eye and I am not judged on my looks, how I dress, how old I am, how much or how little body hair I have, having kids/not having kids, being a wahm/sahm and whether I come across as being kind and not being bossy/overbearing/bitchy/a Karen/over confident/under confident/screechy/shrill/aggressive/too career-obsessed etc etc) then I will worry about whether or not too many things are being labelled as misogyny.

monsteramunch · 02/11/2022 22:41

@niceduvet

Is that a yes to the following?

If you could rewrite policy, in an ideal world you'd want the law to say that girls and women couldn't have abortions if the pregnancy was a result of consensual sex?

Because that pregnancy is a consequence of the consensual sex, so they forfeit their fundamental human right to full bodily autonomy regarding that pregnancy?

Topgub · 02/11/2022 22:44

The consequence is having to make the choice between having an abortion or having a baby

Simple

magma32 · 02/11/2022 22:47

Oh god I used to have this view when I was 16, I remember writing an essay in English and said it should only be allowed if medical necessity or result of rape and that pregnancy is a consequence of having sex. I feel embarrassed about having that view now.

Topgub · 02/11/2022 22:48

On that point, why don't babies conceived through rape have any rights?

Why is it ok to take away their right to life?

magma32 · 02/11/2022 22:50

Topgub · 02/11/2022 22:48

On that point, why don't babies conceived through rape have any rights?

Why is it ok to take away their right to life?

Exactly, a life is a life after all.

lifeturnsonadime · 02/11/2022 22:51

Topgub · 02/11/2022 22:48

On that point, why don't babies conceived through rape have any rights?

Why is it ok to take away their right to life?

I'd love to know your answer to this @niceduvet because if this baby doesn't have the same rights as the rights of the mother who had consenting sex it's interesting.

It's almost like you are punishing the mother for doing wrong and it's nothing to do with the rights of the unborn child after all.

LolaSmiles · 02/11/2022 22:51

I don't believe that sex without any consequences should be a fundamental human right
So men can have as much sex as they like and walk away, but if a woman has sex she has to accept that forced birthers are going to remove her bodily autonomy.

How depressing.

Topgub · 02/11/2022 22:53

@LolaSmiles

But not at all mysoginist

No.

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:56

Exactly Topgub - that is a possible consequence of having sex.

But people know that before they engage in consensual sex. You don't just wake up pregnant without having chosen to have sex beforehand. That is your choice. Choices sometimes have consequences.

lifeturnsonadime · 02/11/2022 22:59

So @niceduvet what about the rights of the baby when the mother has been raped or are you ducking Topgub's question?

I really want to know whether this is really about the rights of the unborn baby or whether it is about forcing women who make choices you disapprove of to give birth.

monsteramunch · 02/11/2022 22:59

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 22:56

Exactly Topgub - that is a possible consequence of having sex.

But people know that before they engage in consensual sex. You don't just wake up pregnant without having chosen to have sex beforehand. That is your choice. Choices sometimes have consequences.

And I'll ask again, just for clarity, as you said you weren't 'pro-life' across the board...

So if you could rewrite policy, in an ideal world you'd want the law to say that girls and women couldn't have abortions if the pregnancy was a result of consensual sex?

Because that pregnancy is a consequence of the consensual sex, so they forfeit their fundamental human right to full bodily autonomy regarding that pregnancy?

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 23:06

... why should the life you've created through an act of choice to have sex (assuming consensual) then have to pay the ultimate price.

monsteramunch · 02/11/2022 23:08

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 23:06

... why should the life you've created through an act of choice to have sex (assuming consensual) then have to pay the ultimate price.

So that's a "yes" then to my question re what you'd want the law to be in an ideal world?

I'm only asking for clarity - if you stand by your beliefs then it shouldn't be hard to say yes so I'm not sure why you've avoided it?

lifeturnsonadime · 02/11/2022 23:19

Interesting that niceduvet is refusing to answer questions directly.

LolaSmiles · 02/11/2022 23:20

why should the life you've created through an act of choice to have sex (assuming consensual) then have to pay the ultimate price.

Aka sex is for babies ladies. Don't be going out and enjoying yourself because if your contraception fails then you should be forced to be pregnant for 9 months and have a baby. That'll keep you in your place. Remember, if you're consenting to sex, you're consenting to motherhood.

Men on the other hand can shag whoever they like, whenever they like, but obviously none of this is about policing women's bodies.

monsteramunch · 02/11/2022 23:22

lifeturnsonadime · 02/11/2022 23:19

Interesting that niceduvet is refusing to answer questions directly.

I think this is the issue. If someone believes that the scenario I shared in my question is the one they'd like in an ideal world, I don't know why they won't answer it directly. If I believe something I say it and stand by it.

niceduvet · 02/11/2022 23:39

I've offered my view on abortion on demand following consensual sex between people with all their mental faculties.

I'm not going to delve into looking at exceptions as I have a feeling I'll get flamed whatever I say on that one - and that discussion could run and run!

If my views mean some people on MN think I'm a misogynist then so be it! I couldn't care less. I don't subscribe to that, and still strongly believe abortion is a moral issue and not simply "health care". I doubt anyone will be able to change my mind on that.

No OP, YANBU.