To think not everything is ‘misogyny’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

… and that the word is massively overused on here?

I’m getting quite tired of it if I’m honest, it feels like every other conversation the ‘misogyny’ card is whipped out and anyone who disagrees has ‘internalised misogyny’ (um no I just have a different opinion).

It’s becoming the ‘BeKind’ of feminism. Overused to the point it’s getting meaningless and irritating, and just used to ‘win’ any kind of nuanced topic without any proper discussion.

AIBU? 🤷🏼‍♀️

EVERY woman knows that if you chose to have sex there is a chance that you might get pregnant!! That's what you, I and others sign up for when we have sex - that this might possibly happen. We all know that occasionally contraception fails.

I am referring here to consensual sex by people who have all of their mental faculties obviously.

@niceduvet

Yeah?

So what?

Not every woman shares your beliefs about abortion

I dont.

We have enough lives that no one gives a fuck about without adding more unwanted ones to it.

Okay. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I, however, give a F**k about the unborn. I'm also entitled to my opinion. Maybe we need to move back to the OP's original question now.

@niceduvet

The problem with people with your opinion is they they think they have the moral highground and therefor should get their way and control women's rights.

Bang on theme for the op.

So if someone is pro-life that automatically means they are a misogynist is that what you're saying? Really?

I would. You can’t be pro-life if you don’t also include the woman’s life.

@niceduvet

Yes.

If they want to restrict womems rights

If you think a girl or woman should be forced to continue a pregnancy and give birth against her will then yes.

Yes.

Nah. That doesn't ring true to me. I don't agree that pro-lifers are by default misogynistic.

And where do you draw the line - abortion on demand right up to birth?

So if someone is pro-life that automatically means they are a misogynist is that what you're saying? Really?

Yes. The moment you want to turn women into incubators, you're a misogynist.

Why not?

And where do you draw the line - abortion on demand right up to birth?

Yes. Because 1) that doesn't happen - very late term abortions are for medical reasons. There have been 2 or 3 cases in the UK of women demanding very late abortions without birth defects being present, and in those cases there were severe mental health issues, the women were judged not to have capacity and the abortions didn't go ahead. Sufficient safeguards right there.
And 2) because I trust women to make good choices for themselves. Not trusting women to know what is best for them is also misogyny.

Yes

I agree with termination on demand at any point, for any reason

So in your ideal world unborn babies would have absolutely no rights at all!

Is this a joke?

And where do you draw the line - abortion on demand right up to birth?
As early as possible and as late as necessary.

Most importantly it doesn't matter what my personal views are about the limited circumstances where I would consider an abortion, my opinion and my bodily choices have nothing to do with another woman, her body, and her circumstances.

Being in favour of forcing women to give birth isn't pro life. It's pro forced birth, and in my experience the people who are obsessed with regulating women's bodies very rarely seem to put as much energy and time into campaigning for the sort of support and provision for pregnant women, families, and those babies once they're born. That's all a bit too messy to get involved with and might require some critical thought.

Yes. I'm fine with that. Living women first and only. You don't have to look far to see what happens when you give unborn babies rights. Women end up in jail for having miscarriages, for starters. This is the thing forced birthers seem unable to comprehend.

Unborn babies already don’t have any rights.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

In the most recent data available for the UK, abortions over 24 weeks account for less than 0.1% of the total. That's around 200 women across the year, who I'm sure you'll agree would be only terminating wanted pregnancies on health grounds either for them or the baby.

The 'would you support it even if they were about to be born' argument is a real straw man argument, and a lazy one at that. Do you really think women who have carried their baby to the third trimester are having terminations for anything other than incredibly serious medical issues that threaten the life of mother, baby or both?

And @niceduvet it might be worth looking at the label you use.

If you'd choose for women to be coerced, legally obliged or forced to continue a pregnancy to term and give birth, you aren't pro life, you're pro forced birth.

Maybe that helps you understand why many of us view it as a misogynist standpoint?

No Pumper - this is not a joke. Many people are pro-life. We may not be statistically well represented on MN but there are plenty of us about.

That doesn't mean we don't empathise with the very real and hard issues around this topic or the difficult decisions people have to grapple with. And many of us aren't dogedly pro-life in all circumstances. There are exceptions obviously.

I personally don't agree that this makes us misogynistic.

Monster - I guess it depends how you define "pro-life"...

@niceduvet

How can the removal of a womans rights over her own body be anything but mysoginist?

There's actual research on this anyway.

'Pro lifers' are far more likely to hold mysoginist beliefs.

That doesn't mean we don't empathise with the very real and hard issues around this topic or the difficult decisions people have to grapple with. And many of us aren't dogedly pro-life in all circumstances. There are exceptions obviously.

I personally don't agree that this makes us misogynistic.**

What you personally think about your misogyny is irrelevant.

You believe you have the right to determine which women are worthy of abortions.

You believe that the unworthy should be forced to give birth without due regard to the impact that has on the mother or the fetus.