To think not everything is ‘misogyny’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

… and that the word is massively overused on here?

I’m getting quite tired of it if I’m honest, it feels like every other conversation the ‘misogyny’ card is whipped out and anyone who disagrees has ‘internalised misogyny’ (um no I just have a different opinion).

It’s becoming the ‘BeKind’ of feminism. Overused to the point it’s getting meaningless and irritating, and just used to ‘win’ any kind of nuanced topic without any proper discussion.

AIBU? 🤷🏼‍♀️

I don’t think acknowledging the fact women are physically weaker than men is misogynistic.

Neither do most feminists. In fact most use this as a point when debating the importance of single sex spaces and risk assessment.

Do you really think a lot of women who note the prevalence of misogyny in society believe that a statement like 'women as a sex class are physically weaker than men' is misogynistic? It's factual.

The list of 100 MPs who voted against a specific bill, which imposed (the very liberal) E&W law on NI via Westminster despite it being a devolved issue and there being a very active debate locally, isn't evidence that those 100 MPs are itching to turn England into Gilead tomorrow, come on.

This is the second time you’ve done this, you even said ‘come on’ at the end of both posts. That’s not what that post said.

The list of 100 MPs who voted against a specific bill, which imposed (the very liberal) E&W law on NI via Westminster despite it being a devolved issue and there being a very active debate locally, isn't evidence that those 100 MPs are itching to turn England into Gilead tomorrow, come on.

Lucky I didn't say that then, isn't it?

OP: "I don’t think this is ‘misogynistic’ to say, nor is it misogyny to point out female contraceptive methods are numerous, free and highly effective. Male contraceptives are not."

Strewth. What exactly do you mean by 'female contraceptive method' and why do you think these are better than the alternatives?
There are lots of reasons why condoms could be considered the best method (in that they also protect both parties from a range of STIs), but they're not as widely used as they could be, mostly because men complain that they don't like them.
Instead, women are expected to risk their health with invasive contraceptives/ life-long medication.

Did you ever stop to wonder why pharmaceutical companies have never bothered developing a male version of the pill?

Vasectomies are free on the NHS.
The female equivalent is not.

Personally, I've always used 'sexism' far more often than 'misogyny', but having read your posts on this thread, I'm convinced that the only explanation for your bile is the kind of self-loathing that could be described as misogyny.

Why wouldn’t they?

Because if we're going to accept, as is generally the case, that misogyny leads in some cases to male violence against women, then the corollary is that misandry leads in some cases to female violence against men.

Also, a question for you. Do you have anything to back up your subjective statements that misandry is a 'meaningless' term?

Yes I do. It has zero connotations in the real world. It doesn’t translate into any real outcome for men, it only exists because of misogyny. And you must agree with that because the best you can come up with is male victims of female might feel that way.

Men, the ones who lash out, hit, are violent and abusive, and kill people at 100s of times the rate women do - are ‘less emotive’ (sic) than women?!

Now I know you’re on a wind-up.

Do you seriously think men are less emotional than women…..?

I am finding it increasingly difficult to resist the urge to go and bang my head on an unyielding surface.

I don't think highlighting that women have the balance of power and therefore responsibility over birth control and pregnancy choices is misogynistic.

It is misogynistic when the logical conclusion to that train of thought is that because the ultimate responsibility for contraception lies with women, all unwanted pregnancies therefore must be the woman's fault, and has nothing to do with the man who impregnated her.

We all naturally think that it is a good idea for women and girls to take sensible precautions regarding their own safety when out and about, and it would not be misogynistic to say so. However, it is misogynistic to say that since it is a woman's responsibility to ensure her own safety, then therefore she only has herself to blame if she is assaulted, raped or murdered.

And if men are ‘more logical’ in their thinking, then that is truly, truly chilling.

It is misogynistic when the logical conclusion to that train of thought is that because the ultimate responsibility for contraception lies with women, all unwanted pregnancies therefore must be the woman's fault, and has nothing to do with the man who impregnated her.

But you’re stretching it to a conclusion that is an opinion I don’t hold.

Why?

Because it would mean that all the emotional things they do in anger - hit, abuse, kill, etc - are thought out, logical and pre-meditated.

Do you think those acts are driven by logic? Or is it possible that they’re driven by anger (an emotion)? I think it’s the latter.

Men are much, much more emotional than women (with far more dire consequences), and if those acts are driven by cold logic, that’s very, very chilling.

Well done OP, for standing up to the bullies on here. The irony of them on a misognogy or not misogyny thread. Blinking priceless 😅

How can anyone say they think men are less emotional when there is ample evidence all around us of the conclusion of their emotions? Dead women, abused women, abused children, damaged men...all day, every day.

I wasn't suggesting it was your opinion no, but many others would come to that 'logical' misogynistic conclusion.

@Cuppasoupmonster

So it’s impossible for any woman to hold a differing view to you without it being ‘internalised misogyny’ or the fault of the patriarchy? We should be a hive mind that agree on everything?

I agree with you.

To be honest when I hear it spouted out so much, I just conclude the poster doesn't know what they're talking about.

In a recent thread about why do men have kids when they opt out of family life, because a poster raised the point of why do some women choose these men to have kids with...once again misogyny is thrown out. Absolute nonsense.

Instead of accepting that, as a woman, you have a responsibility and should be accountable for having a baby with someone who has ALREADY SHOWN YOU BEFORE GETTING PREGNANT, that he's a useful as a chocolate teapot.

Well done OP, for standing up to the bullies on here. The irony of them on a misognogy or not misogyny thread.Blinking priceless
This isn't the gotcha you think.

Women engaging in robust debate isn't bullying.
Disagreeing with a woman in a debate isn't misogyny.

Once again:
misogyny
mɪˈsɒdʒ(ə)ni
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

Well you'd better tell that to the advocates of so called internalised misogyny then. You don't get to have it both ways.

I don’t like this “internalised misogyny” thing either. It’s like when Jewish critics of Israeli government policy are labelled self-hating Jews.

Absolutely..it's utter nonsense, always delivered by the staunch feminists, or pseudo feminists, who bully their way through debates. They change their alliance to women, at the drop of a hat. If you're a woman, not agreeing with them, you're the enemy!

Well you'd better tell that to the advocates of so called internalised misogyny then. You don't get to have it both ways.
What are you on about having it both ways?

Women growing up in a society steeped in misogyny can, and do at times, take on the misogynistic values.

Identifying those values and ingrained prejudices towards women is not bullying, nor is it misogynistic to do so. It doesn't matter whether the person promoting misogyny is a man or a woman.

Unless you're going to argue that a woman can spout as much prejudice about women, minimise their oppression, argue women don't understand their oppression, and that it's childish for women to identify misogyny and patriarchy and they should not be challenged on it because they happen to be a woman?

You're way more invested in misogony than I am. I enjoy having a life. Hence. My responses on this thread, giving my opinion. I couldn't give a donkey's dick to the extent you do. All I see are some heavy going posts that reflect taking life way too seriously.

If you're a woman, not agreeing with them, you're the enemy!
Is anyone saying anyone is the enemy?

I've found most feminists to be open to robust debate, and with different views on many topics.

There's been times on feminist pages and groups I've been strongly disagreed with. Women who discuss feminism tend to be clued up and willing to learn and reflect and engage in interesting debate. On some topics I've changed my mind. On others I haven't. What I've generally found in feminist circles is a limited patience for straw men arguments and whataboutery, especially when discussions about women's oppression ends up being pulled back to 'NAMALT', 'but what about men...', sealioning and claims that disagreement is bullying/mean women.

On a thread earlier today about Harry’s book 'Spare' were such comments as:

“I lost a great deal of sympathy for Diana when she took to shagging married men, and was the "third person" at least twice”

And

“It also coincided with Camilla’s 50th birthday celebrations, which may also have factored into Diana’s decision-making too. She went out in a leopard print swimsuit and did a lot of acrobat dives into the ocean in front of the press pack on the actual day of the birthday!”

I then remarked:

So this thread has turned into 'Harry's mum was a slag' has it? Nice.

To which I was told:

"Wow, nice misogyny there, Posey! You’re the only person I can see judging Diana for her lived life."

The world has gone mad 😂😂