To think not everything is ‘misogyny’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

… and that the word is massively overused on here?

I’m getting quite tired of it if I’m honest, it feels like every other conversation the ‘misogyny’ card is whipped out and anyone who disagrees has ‘internalised misogyny’ (um no I just have a different opinion).

It’s becoming the ‘BeKind’ of feminism. Overused to the point it’s getting meaningless and irritating, and just used to ‘win’ any kind of nuanced topic without any proper discussion.

AIBU? 🤷🏼‍♀️

No. You're allowed to have different views. It just so happens that your view on the topic you chose an example actually was misogynistic.

You just chose a bad example.

Oh right. So what could I say that wouldn’t be internalised misogyny? Anything? Best strictly contestant?

I agree. As is casual racism and sexism. Far too overly early used on MN. Best is when a woman is told she is internally misogynistic. Ridiculous.

@Cuppasoupmonster depends who you picked

But it can equally be woman who say they are in the pill, say they don't need to use condoms because it's only as effective and actually become pregnant because they don't take it properly or deliberately.

Sex is an equal thing.

My DP and I fell accidentally pregnant after BOTH deciding on what childbirth protection to use - that failing - and the map failing.

I don't regret my now 18yo ds. But to blame just DP would be ridiculous.

I blame him for being a useless absent father for 15 years. I blame him for being the turd he is.

But contraception is a joint choice and a woman who doesn't want to risk pregnancy can refuse sex without condoms if they don't want to take synthetic hormones.

Of course - disclaimer - they are times when in relationship and stranger rape is the cause. I've been a victim of that.

But that doesn't account for the highest percentage of unplanned pregnancy and doesn't make all unplanned pregnancy the males responsibility.

Sexism is rooted in misogyny. I’m not sure why there was such focus on the word. Sexist structures, don’t come from a live of women. Not sure why ‘it’s sexism’ is a better argument place to be.

Yabu and blinkered

Most things stem from misogyny. If you don't understand that you either don't really appreciate what it is or don't have any awareness of life on this planet.

Sex is an equal thing..But contraception is a joint choice

No, it really isn't.

Yes it really is.

I don’t see how it possibly can be when the majority of contraceptives are only available to women.

Jesus wept.

Are all people in equal relationships?

Are all relationships of a quality where contraception is discussed?

Is pregnancy an equal experience?

Is abortion an equal experience?

Does the Law make both sexes support their children?

Does society have the same expectations of mothers and fathers?

I agree. I also think some (not all!) people use misandry too easily and dress it up as ‘feminism

agreed

Misandry doesn’t exist in any real sense though.

🙄

Misandry doesn’t exist in any real sense though

looking at mn I'd say it's pretty alive and well.

Where? Where is the real-life consequence of misandry?

I agree. I also think some (not all!) people use misandry too easily and dress it up as ‘feminism

I see. Based on this thread it's quite enlightening.

Women mustn't talk about systemic oppression of women based on their sex based reality because it's misandry to identify patriarchy in action.

Women mustn't identify when men are showing contempt for women because that makes me look bad, so it needs to be bundled into nice everyday sexism, and certainly isn't misogyny because identifying misogyny is anti men.

Women mustn't identify where people are demonstrating ingrained prejudices against women and how ingrained prejudices against women exist throughout society. If you identify a man doing such a thing then that's misandry.

If women talk about their sex based oppression and experiences of misogyny they don't know what they're talking about.

If women talk about their sex based oppression then they should shut up and stop being childish by blaming men for their problems.

Blaming men for women's problems (aka identifying was a patriarchal society affects women) is childish.

When women engage in feminist discussion, it isn't feminist it's misandry and man hating. They're just pretending to be talking about feminism

Feels like some of the rules of misogyny are rather relevant to this thread.

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad (could insert any misogynistic behaviour for men here though)

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more

@Faultymain5 Sexism is rooted in misogyny. I’m not sure why there was such focus on the word.

I would push back on this. A lot of sexist structures and gender roles are holdovers from earlier times in history when it did make a lot of practical sense for there to be more sex segregation in social roles.

We can question which of those are still relevant today given advances in technology (e.g.: now that we have washing machines, both sexes can do laundry) but that doesn't mean they originated from a place of "woman-hating".

I usually find it more useful to understand patriarchy (i.e., society-wide structures) through a materialist, practical lens rather than through the lens of "hateful intent". The latter can be useful for looking at men who commit specific criminal acts, which obviously find awful and distressing. But we need separate words for each.

@yubgummy

Sorry, just to check, are you being serious when you say now we have washing machines both sexes can do laundry?

Women mustn't talk about systemic oppression of women based on their sex based reality because it's misandry to identify patriarchy in action.

If you think any opinion that has nuance is this, then you’re not really up to having such complex debates.

Sat's the op who has posted like a petulant teenager throughout

🤣

Sat's the op who has posted like a petulant teenager throughout

Exactly what I was thinking - misogyny! No wait, abortion! No wait, contraceptives! No wait, equality! Just constantly moving the goal posts when you can’t respond to a point. You still haven’t said what the issue is with using abortion as a contraceptive @Cuppasoupmonster

Yes? How is this a controversial point?

If you think any opinion that has nuance is this, then you’re not really up to having such complex debates

Lovely and patronising yet again, from an OP who has spent pages and pages demonstrating ingrained prejudice against women and telling women they don't know what they're talking about.

misogyny
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

It’s true. Some feminists have more in common with TRAs than they would ever admit.