To think JKRowling should be in the House of Lords

[Allthegoodnamesarechosen]

She is probably the best selling living author writing in English

She has given a great deal of money to charity

She has conquered the disadvantages of being an unemployed single mother by her own efforts

She is a great role model for women and girls

Then I'll agree to disagree. I don't think mocking is ok, no matter what/who it's directed to, even when I disagree with the entire premise of the thing.

I don't think mocking is acceptable under any circumstances

So do you think its mocking to say something like "if I no longer want to be a girl I just take my high heels off" ? Does that sound like mocking women as basically women are only women because of shoes?

Haha no, Dr Ivy was not prosecuted. Not even banned from Twitter. Sorry, got my posters confused. Actually the bomb threat sent to JK was actually proven to be a trans activist so I think the ‘not really trans’ argument won’t work. How do you know they’re not transpeople? If they are not transpeople, and transpeople disagree with women being abused and threatened online, why are they not saying so?

No, I don't. As I said, the posts where people mock trans people by saying "I identify as a chair today" etc are what I'm talking about. There was a whole thread about a survey for Welsh people a little while ago and there were so many posts of people saying they identify as a leak, a potato, a Welsh granny etc etc in order to participate in the survey themselves and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. It was sad to see. That thread now has loads of deletions, iirc, most of them were of posters mocking trans people. I just think that people can get their opinion/point across in different ways.

If ideologies can't be mocked, what are we allowed to say?

Then I'll agree to disagree. I don't think mocking is ok, no matter what/who it's directed to, even when I disagree with the entire premise of the thing.

Do you understand that for many female bodied people, who have spent their Iives dealing with the reality of having that body in this society, a male person claiming womanhood because of some internal feeling at least as offensive as someone claiming to be a carrot to mock self-defined genders?

Most trans supporters have said they don't agree with women being abused online. I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't be surprising if many annonymous online threats are not from trans supporters. Most violent misogynists probably hate trans people too. It would be a pretty easy way to get at both groups in one go.

I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't be surprising if many annonymous online threats are not from trans supporters.

The very fact that such people could get unfettered access to women's spaces by saying they feel like women is exactly what we're worried about.

Why do you need to mock an ideology in order to get the point that you don't agree with it across? There are plenty of very intelligent posters on FWR, I'm sure they're capable or getting their disagreement across without resorting to mocking, in fact plenty of them do.

Yes, I get that entirely. I just don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible to make that statement without mocking people. To me, a perfectly good point is nullified as soon as insults/mockery starts getting thrown about.

Most trans supporters have said they don't agree with women being abused online.

No they haven't! 😂

I can't think of a single prominent TRA or 'trans ally' who has called out the abuse of JKR. Billy Bragg only finally said he didn't agree with the abuse she received because he was backed into a corner and was forced to say it.

A lot of people have either laughed at it, claimed its not 'proper abuse' or have just said 'well its not as bad as the abuse trans people get'.

Dangerous men don't need to say they "feel like women" to get access to "women's spaces" .

Not if self ID gets in they won't!

No, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier for them.

Just ask Karen White, or Shaun Jacbob Green.

I have seen many posters who support transpeople say that on mumsnet threads. I don't agree that Billy Bragg only said he didn't agree with women being abused online because he was "backed into a corner" either.

Had a quick look through my email and found this one that I did report, and this one on the same thread. Plenty more on that same thread. Have blocked out usernames, of course. Will make a point to screenshot more often if I see something in a similar vein (vain?) so that I don't need to trawl through my emails for receipts to back up my posts.

It's easy anyway.

@Feyrethefae so it’s ok to mock women and insult them to reducing being a woman to which shoes you wear (Eddie Izzard) or to state that transwomen make better women than women (Jordan Grey). But it’s not ok to mock an ideology that is insulting and demeaning to women?

Please don't start the "women get raped anyway so it doesn't matter if they get raped more" stuff. People always get so offended when called out on it.

Respectfully, please don't put words in my mouth. I said up thread that I think any mocking is unacceptable, no matter who it is directed at and no matter what my opinion is on the subject in question.

Well I don't think mocking is unacceptable. Ideas, ideologies and beliefs should always be fair game for mocking or else we can't dissent, oppose or speak freely.

I haven't said that. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Dangerous men don't need to say they "feel like women" to get access to "women's spaces" .

Nicola Sturgeon has arrived. No they don't, and soon they won't need to, but why make it easier for them? If there was ever a need for Dummies Guide to Safeguarding it's now.

Then let's agree to disagree. I believe that we can disagree, dissent, get our opinion across and oppose perfectly well without resorting to mocking.

but you said you didn’t think reducing women to what shoes they wore was mockery didn’t you? @Feyrethefae or were you saying that that is mockery and you were condemning it?