"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

Economists and politicians around the world judge Brexit as an economic disaster... no one but a fool would argue otherwise.

Listening (on R4) about the EU repeal bill going through Parliament, a mess, no legislation to replace some very important laws and even Sunak is looking to extend the deadline into 2024.... more uncertainty (markets/investors love that) ....more delay and ministers with absolute power to remove law... with no specific vote on it.

This is absolutely nothing to do with the work ethic of the british man or woman, which when given good working conditions and decent management, have productivity levels as good as anywhere in Europe.... but we don't give them that do we?

Productivity levels as good as anywhere in Europe … all of Europe is going to have a big problem with industries shutting down:
t.co/dfoyA0F0uW

The EU will be in big trouble if this downward spiral isn’t stopped. Brexit or not, the same trends are evident in UK, so in the larger scheme, I don’t know why people are so keen to blame Brexit when it’s so obviously tied to energy.

This is absolutely nothing to do with the work ethic of the british man or woman, which when given good working conditions and decent management, have productivity levels as good as anywhere in Europe.... but we don't give them that do we?

I disagree.

I can think of two companies in my area who can't get staff, despite excellent working conditions and paying over minimum wage.

IMO some people got so cosy being furloughed and sitting on their backsides during Covid that they don't want to work now.

So you found an expert on China Global News website who also does work for the EU? Is that what you're saying? And you're putting that forward as a reason why the , multiple, experts on the panel I saw should have their expert opinion of the economic outlook for the UK discounted?

Actually the acute short-termism of many of the City's investment advisers, funds and bankers probably explains why BritishVolt is in difficulties. It is very hard to get enough capital and working capital in the UK to fund the years before the payback.

Thats illogical... people who would be earning just above MW, aren't going to be able to afford to retire early... the people i know who have packed up work early are very well off and able to access good pensions from 55 onward.

@Alexandra2001 Thats illogical... people who would be earning just above MW, aren't going to be able to afford to retire early... the people i know who have packed up work early are very well off and able to access good pensions from 55 onward.

Yes, you would have thought it was illogical, but jobs around here don't get filled.
The jobs I'm thinking about fit in well with school hours, so no problem there.
I'm just at a loss as to why these posts don't get filled and what people are doing for money.

The previous BV CEO explained it well, basically they are very top heavy in management and that management don't know what they doing/no previous experience/no pre orders/no product....
Though it was pointed out that he had something to do with that!

BV is basically a start up that needs 3 billion and is competing against est manufacturers with a cheaper cost base.. even in the EU.

Govt pulled funding too.. not just 'city.

The same CEO is now running a battery factory company in Italy... i mean Italy? we can't compete for whatever reason.

Brexit means its hard to get skilled labour and frictionless access to EU car manufacturers, who wants their product/raw materials stuck at Dover?

imho there isn't the churn on young intelligent EU nationals coming here now.... remember we never counted them in or out, so there really isn't any numbers on whats happened more recently.

I live down in Cornwall, just don't hear the east european accents in our local shops and the market gardener cannot get people to work in his Greenhouses, used to be EU workers.

...i think this has a knock on effect across all sectors, not least social care... where i know personally of the shortages of care workers as so many EU ones aren't here anymore.

Working in other jobs already?…

🤣🤣🤣 Ah, yes, the UK rat that thought it was escaping the sinking ship, but which actually leapt out into the frozen sea without a life raft after having gnawed as many holes in the ship as possible, first. Only an idiot goes out of their way to exacerbate a situation whilst simultaneously cutting off their lifelines.

Also from Cornwall, but I think employers currently need to work quite hard and pay quite well to keep the people that they see as the future for the business. We do, and haven't had anyone leave for ages, but a few of our team are closing on retirement age. And no one of 25 has a clue about old school skills that were familiar to most 12 year olds 50 years ago, like soft soldering. Yes they are historic, but they are still useful.

And the price of getting those jobs done now is off the scale expensive... if you are really hot at any of them, you can charge £££ per hour, not per day. Trades are increasingly valued properly and treated respectfully.

What’s happening in EU is hardly UK’s fault. It’s just the same trends can be found, and energy is the big reason why Germany is in a recession. Tbh you’d be in this very same position, even if you were still in the EU because yhe energy crisis is driving this (oh and the wanton money printing during Covid).

Brexit is very peripheral to the problems you are facing, to keep fixating on it is very Little England kind of stuff.

Yes to this. It needs broader thinking.

No to this - it needs to be admitted that whilst of course the broader issues would still exist, they are magnified by Brexit. As I said, the UK thought it was deserting a sinking ship, but that’s a suicidal thing to do if you are just leaping into the frozen sea without a lifeboat. Brexit solved nothing - didn’t stop the mass migration of people towards the EU and on to the UK; didn’t save any money for the NHS; didn’t cut bureaucracy; didn’t make the country more competitive; didn’t put Russia off invading Ukraine (in reality it encouraged Russia to think it would get away with it, as it was an indicator of weakness and instability); weakened the country on the world stage; weakened the country internally; caused massive problems in N.Ireland and issues with Scotland; put excessive pressure on all government services, as only an idiot inflicts austerity and massive administrative changes and increases in responsibility at the same time on demoralised , exhausted people… I could go on. Brexit has been an entirely unnecessary extra burden at precisely the wrong time in history. It’s like the country was going out of its way to usher back the 1970s.

Ignoring the reality of the GDP drop we had as a result of Brexit & the reluctance of foreign investors to come to the UK.... is stupid.... almost all investors, economists i.e the experts we were told to ignore, say this.

We have just made matters worse and are starting from a lower position than most of the EU, following ten plus of Austerity... did it ever end???

We ve an NHS that is facing difficulties even more extreme than CV.. according to their CEO... yet have lost the ability for workers from the EU to come here easily so they don't they go where it is easy to work, so we take from countries that need their own HC workers.

The war in Ukraine wont last forever, Putin won't either & other forms of energy will be found ....but Brexit and its effects will endure.... its most certainly not a side issue

I mean, really, arguing Brexit has nothing to do with our country’s problems because there are “broader issues” at play is like arguing Liz Truss has nothing to do with the country’s current problems, because there are “broader issues” at play 🤣. Sometimes, certain actions can make things even worse still.

Meh I appreciate posts from other posters. It’ll change back to SM or not going on about it every day won’t change the outcome. I’ll leave you to it.

Exactly.. the only people wanting to minimise Brexit are the fools who voted for it & lack the wisdom to realise Brexit was a vehicle for a handful of people to get into power.

I don’t live in the UK anymore and never did when the Brexit debate was happening. It just seems to be an obsession among a certain set to blame what are clearly global trends on Brexit, which is odd to me.

I have in-laws who go on and on about this, which is incredibly annoying.

Brexit solved nothing

Never said it did.

didn’t put Russia off invading Ukraine (in reality it encouraged Russia to think it would get away with it, as it was an indicator of weakness and instability)

Stuff like this is so so laughable. What kind of country do you think you are, that you are some kind of deterrence to Russia? 😆

weakened the country on the world stage

You are just going to your rightful place in the global pecking order. You are not going to be a global leader inside or outside the EU, that’s just facts.

only an idiot inflicts austerity and massive administrative changes and increases in responsibility at the same time on demoralised , exhausted people

You were all demoralised and exhausted in 2016? And you think you can have some impact on the world events?

@BerriesOnTop - I don’t live in the UK anymore and never did when the Brexit debate was happening. It just seems to be an obsession among a certain set to blame what are clearly global trends on Brexit, which is odd to me.

What do you think the whole Brexit debate was about, other than an obsession among a certain set to blame what are clearly global trends on the EU?

“Brexit solved nothing - Never said it did.

Yes, but you are clearly attempting to say Brexit didn’t make it considerably worse.

What kind of country do you think you are, that you are some kind of deterrence to Russia?

This is laughable. What makes you think I am focusing on the UK? Brexit weakened both the EU and UK and wasted huge amounts of energy on the European continent arguing over how to do it, instead of focusing on considerably more important world events. Yes, this is a symptom of general global trends of extreme idiocy, but the UK didn’t have to add this to the mix. And if you don’t think this squabbling has weakened the EU in Russia’s eyes and wasted a huge amount of time and energy for zero gain, then you need to ask yourself why both the UK and entire EU felt the need to squabble so much over the terms of it, if it is such an unimportant issue for the EU and generally such an irrelevance to UK or EU economics and stability. And if you don’t think Russia would be encouraged by a weakened, distracted EU, there’s something wrong with you.

You were all demoralised and exhausted in 2016? And you think you can have some impact on the world events?

What planet are you living on? The global recession started around 2008 and we have had austerity inflicted on us ever since. Of course we were weakened and demoralised already in 2016 - not because of the EU, but because of “broader world trends” that you are so fond of referring to. The worst possible response to the problems the world is currently facing is for countries to co-operate less with each other, instead of more.

And I don’t give a toss whether or not the UK has an impact on world events, but I care massively about whether the UK commits acts of self-sabotage to make a bad situation worse for itself. And I care massively if it does actually harm the continent it lives on by pretending it isn’t really part of the continent and can survive without it. We can’t survive if we harm our relationships with our closest neighbours - we need them.

Andrew Bailey, the Bank of England governor, when asked by Channel 4 News if the market meltdown in September was caused solely by global factors
“I don't really think that is the case. Certainly, global markets have had shocks this year, we’ve had common shocks, Ukraine would be an example, but this was a particularly UK issue.”

Britain facing longest recession since records began

If you want to enjoy your weekend and remain in cloud cuckoo land, I suggest you don't read this article.

And if you don’t think this squabbling has weakened the EU in Russia’s eyes and wasted a huge amount of time and energy for zero gain, then you need to ask yourself why both the UK and entire EU felt the need to squabble so much over the terms of it, if it is such an unimportant issue for the EU and generally such an irrelevance to UK or EU economics and stability. And if you don’t think Russia would be encouraged by a weakened, distracted EU, there’s something wrong with you

What has helped Russia immensely is green propaganda (which they fund btw) which has made the entire EU incredibly dependent on Russian commodities.

Its not like EU + UK could do anything to stop or even deter Russia. You are utterly dependent on the US for security.

I hate to put it so baldfaced but I’m so so tired of British people going on about Brexit (either way) when you’d be in the exact same position—facing a prolonged recession and energy shortages caused by political myopia. The whole continent (such as it is) is in trouble imho