AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

Why?

Yes because the maths is different

Why do people spread misinformation? I’ve only read the first page but more than half the responses are wrong. Your number of days holiday entitlement shouldn’t change in this scenario. What they are proposing is a breach of the part time worker regulations, and probably amounts to indirect sex discrimination too.

I do the same number of hours and my holiday is pro-rata so I get 80% of my 29 days entitlement. You will also find you will lose 20% ot bank holiday entitlement too.

I feel like slamming my head in a door.

Do you do your hours over 5 days or fewer?
If fewer than 5 days then yes the number of dayals annual leave and bank holidays will reduce. If you do 5 days then you get the same number of days as full time staff also working 5 days even if their days are longer

If it's reckoned in hours then this is fair, as you would only need to take 80% of your previous hours for annual leave

If you do 80% of the hours of a full time employee, you should get 80% of the holiday entitlement of a full time employer.

I believe your bank holidays are affected too.

*Full time employee

@namechange0998776554432 OP you are 100% in the right. I have been in an identical situation last year, HR were stubbornly confident in the first 3 emails before the maths clicked and then it was very straightforward.

My advice is to spell it out in hours.

Full timer working 7.5 hours per day:
7.5 hours x 25 days = 187.5 hours paid leave

Part timer working day until 3pm:
6 hours x 25 days = 150 hours paid leave

150 is 20% less than 187.5!

The point is you work and are paid for 5 short days. You get paid 25 short days holiday. It's soo simple!

Bear in mind - if you get 25 days holiday a year as a full time employee, that equates to five whole weeks. If you do part time 4 days a week, so 80%, you get 80% of the holiday, so 20 days, which still equates to 5 weeks holiday, because you only need 4 holidays per week to have the week off.

OP works 5 days a week just shorter days.

So same amount of days holiday just less hours.

This.

Yes you're being AIBU, how can you expect holiday entitlement for 1 FTE when you're working 0.8 FTE?

FFS read the thread properly!

AL is calculated in hours not days. If you take 20 days and multiply that by the number of hours a full timer would work in a day, thats how many hours leave you have. Divide this by 6 and you will find you have 25. ie 25 of your shorter working days.

Make sure this is properly written up, you def don't lose 'days off' if you go part time. You lose hours off.

Agree with this

Op the signing of the contract may be a red herring, if you start working the reduced hours it’s likely you’ll be deemed to have accepted the contract regardless of whether you’ve physically signed it. So I’d keep working the full time hours until this is resolved

I work for a large law firm with many employment lawyers plus lots of part time staff, and HR still needed me to explain this concept to them many times! I’m not sure they fully understood, but did at least believe me, so I got my full complement of days annual leave.

However, the fact that I work different numbers of hours on different days blew their minds and we agreed just to ignore that. It probably all evens out but it does secretly please me whenever I take a ‘long’ day off 😁

I normally advise contracting on the same hours each day, mixed with flexi time. This is not to make the annual leave calcs easier but so you can switch long and short days to meet personal and business needs. Fixing long and short days can involve additional administrative input.

Like you I have spent decades explaining the calculations and that they are fair.

You and me both.

That 20% less in hours you're doing, will add up to the annual leave taken away. So, you're taking extra hours off of a day, instead of getting full annual leave.

This is why it's so much easier if leave it calculated in hours not days, because day is different for different people, but hour is always the same. Like everyone else says, you get fewer hours but you also need to take fewer hours, so you should end up with the same number of "days" off

I did this years ago cut my hours to finish at 3 but still worked 5 days, you should still get the same amount of days AL, I rang acas and they worked it out for me. My manager didn’t believe me so rang them herself and they told her the same thing. So for example if you usually get 25 days holiday, and you still work the same number of days a week then you’re still entitled to 25 days. The hours of AL differ but they should still amount to the same days. Please call them and get your boss to do the same.

Those who still think OP is BU, does this explanation make sense as to why she INBU?

OP has reduced each of her 5 days a week by 20% to work shorter days 5 x per week.

OP is only able to book leave, on the system, in blocks of 1 day. OP cannot book 0.8 of a day, the system does not allow this.

OPs employer have said her leave reduces by 20% as her days have reduced by 20%. OP agrees this is correct.

The employer have calculated this by reducing her holiday allowance, in days, by 20%. OP used to have 33 days inc Bank hols. New contract is 26 days inc Bank hols. This only works if the 'days' of leave are 1 full day, not OPs 0.8 day.

BUT because OP's days are shorter than the FT staff, and she can only book whole days from her leave allowance on the system, every time she books a day off, which is 0.8 of a day, she has to use 1 day of her allowance. This deducts the 20% again what the employer is proposing means that OP is losing 2 x 20%.