AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

@PrincessofWellies Because she hadn't looked at the bank holidays at that point

Full time staff get 25 days + 8 bank holidays
They are trying to get OP to sign for 20 days + 6 bank holidays

The other issue is the holiday recording system won't let you put in 0.8 of a day. (Nor can anyone take a half day)

So any request will use up 1 unit of which she will be given 20 (unless they understand the system issues and "gross it up" to be back at 25.

Do you mean specifically in your workplace?

On our system, you can take 1 day or 0.5 days.

For someone working shorter days, they will have that time converted into hours, and the hours deducted, in terms of their records.

So they request a day, but the hours taken is what's recorded, in terms of detail of accrued / taken leave.

No on the op's system, she says only one unit can be taken, no partial units.

This thread is frustrating. HR people have given the right advice. OP should have either

1. The same number of days, if HR is counting each leave day as 6 hours.
2. OR she gets fewer days, if each leave day is counted as only 0.8 of a day so she accrues 0.2 day leave for every one day she takes off.

OP is NOT asking for more leave than a part timer should have, in both scenarios her leave is reducing pro-rata correctly (she will only be paid for 6 hours a day for each full day of leave).

@namechange0998776554432 I think your best bet is to show the impact on hours. Show them the calculations:
FT job hours = FT leave hours
PT job hours = FT leave hours reduced by 20%
HR ridiculous suggestion: PT job hours = FT leave hours reduced by something more than 20% (what they've actually offered with ewer days at 6 hours a day).

Make the point that the PT terms the intern has pointed you to are fine for a PT worker who works fewer than 5 days a week, but crucially each day is full hours. It doesn't work for a PT worker who is in each day but at less than full hours.

I'd also model the calculations I've suggested as if you were doing 4 full hour days instead of 5 part time hour days.That would show the different outcomes - the 4 day week will work exactly as expected (leave days at 80% for a FT worker) vs what they are offering you.

If HR can't understand this, they really don't get the discrimination and that they are offering you less favourable terms than FT, or someone who is PT but at full hour days. The government calculator is quite clear on the number of hours you should be offered.

You're BH should also be a prorata calculation, but should be in hours, as well as the annual leave.

I work in HR and I've previously reduced my hours like you. I worked 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. I was entitled to 32 days a year, same as my full time counterparts. It's just that my days were shorter.

AL calculations are one thing as lot of managers struggle with, but HR should know better.

I had the same allocation on BH leave.

Annual leave for part time staff often gets messed up.

Don't sign until they sort it out.

Oh for heaven's sake… it's the same amount of holiday whether it's calculated in days or hours; the maths don't lie!

OP working full time
days per week: 5
hours per day: 7.5
annual holiday entitlement in (7.5 hour) days: 33
annual holiday entitlement in hours: 247.5

OP working part time (80% of previous hours)
days per week: 5
hours per day: 6
annual holiday entitlement in (6 hour) days: 33
annual holiday entitlement in hours: 33 X 6 = 198

198/247.5 = 0.8 = 80%

Therefore whether it is calculated in days or hours, OP is still getting 80% of her full time equivalent holiday entitlement.

I wish people would read all the replies. You need to fight this op. Your leave should be in hours not days which is their mistake. Also you should get the same number of bank holidays. You are only taking 6 hours each time so if you take every one it’s still 20% less. I can’t believe no one has never queried this before. Good luck ACAS should be able to help.

And the bank holiday calculations are irrelevant. BH are included in the 33 days holiday entitlement so OP will have 33 days annual leave; 6 of which are statutory and the other 27 of which she will be able to book.

I should have added in the above, As OP works five days per week the bank holiday calculations are irrelevant.

Mine isn’t. It’s calculated in days. So even when I only worked two days; I had seven weeks off (full time equivalent). Now work 3 days and it’s still the same. Someone leaving at 3pm at my firm would keep the same number of holiday days as if they were working full days.

OP, if your holiday is calculated in hours they are probably correct. Ask them, if you are not sure.

If your part time work is say one full day a week then you can do annual leave in days. Pro rate the full amount (hols plus bank hols) by 1/5.
Each day off uses up a day.

It's when you do condensed hours or uneven days that you must do hours calculation for annual leave.

Bank Holidays are not statutory.

Working Time Regulations set out Statutory holiday of 4 weeks (Reg 13) and 1.6 weeks (Reg 13A). Any additional leave is contractual.

The Regs also permit an employer to specify when an employee takes their holiday provided they give sufficient notice. Many employers use this to specify Bank Holidays at the start of the year.

You are wrong @Alibro79 she gets paid for 6 hours rather than 8 hours for bank holidays so she is still entitled to them all off at her full pay.

But if all other staff get bank holidays on top of annual leave then so do pet time staff @Princessglittery the statutory thing doesn’t matter - her company give them as extra

@Heyahun I know, I was explaining to @BaffledShopper why BH are not statutory.

So even when I only worked two days; I had seven weeks off (full time equivalent).

@DixonD You weren't taking seven weeks off work though — you were taking 14 days off work (2 days per week X 7 weeks) and the other three days each week were non-working days anyway.

It is obvious that your AL would be proportionate to the hours you work. AL is counted in hours therefore you will still be able to take the samw number of days off work overall as a f/t member of staff.

Thank you for the correction @Princessglittery

What do they classify as day as in the terms of hours in their policy? 7/8/9 hours?

Can you copy and paste the policy here?

I don't know why you are correcting me because I agree with you. I'm obviously not explaining it very clear.

If she is working the same amount of hours every day and every week then it can be done in hours or days.

If she did different hours then it would have to worked out in hours.

At my work, if you're less than 100%, your annual leave it always in hours so you'd get less hours than a full time staff but it works out similar as you don't need to take as many hours leave in order to have a day off.

I reduced my hours by 4 per week. My A/L reduced from 25 days to 22.5 per year. I'm happy with that. I also expected it.

YABU