Page 30 | Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

tamarvin · 2022-10-25T17:53:25+00:00

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m). So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping. From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents. My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet. I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond. Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double. I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise. My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

funnymummmy · 26/10/2022 18:37

Are they actually certain they will get council housing? What plans are they making to find housing? Where were they living before they moved in with you and how did they fund that place?

Dinoteeth · 26/10/2022 18:39

@tamarvin January or even February half term seems a logical point to me too. I bet they'll be ready to leave by then too. Would be really horrible to kick them out before Christmas.

You really do sound a very kind and caring guy.

Ludo19 · 26/10/2022 18:44

@billy1966 100% this!

MichaelFabricantWig · 26/10/2022 18:45

January sounds sensible, not too long to go in the grand scheme of things especially if you can spend Christmas with your ILs

saraclara · 26/10/2022 19:06

I think you're wise to aim for January. It gives them a bit of time to look for help elsewhere, but brings the light at the end of the tunnel much closer.

Good luck with the conversation.

usernamealreadytaken · 26/10/2022 19:14

Brokendaughter · 25/10/2022 22:42

@tamarvin

If your children (& yourself) have lost their mother, it is more important than every that they have some routine & familiarity in thier lives.

I take it this is the house they lived in with their mother, yours is the bedroom you shared with your wife & so on.

It is NOT your fault if you have a greater income than your sisters family does & her children are NOT your responsibility.

You & your children should not have to live a 'lesser' life than you were, just because your sibling is not in the same financial position as you.

You need to keep having your takeaway/eating out treat with just your own children.
It is a thing that belongs to you as a complete family unit (& sharing it with your siblings family changes it) & without their mother, you & your children need it now more than ever.
You need to let your daughter feel safe enough that she knows she doesn't have to lose her privacy as well as her mother.

How much do you think it would hurt her to see another girl who still has a mother get to take over her stuff because that girls mother fought for her, while your daughter wonders if her mother would have had her back?

Same with your son, he needs to know it's HIS room & he can have it to himself if he needs that (although if he's okay sharing that's fine too, as long as it's his decision).

I do think if you make known plans to go away at Christmas, you might come back to find your daughters room suddenly has an extra bed in it, so I'd put a lock on her door.

Please don't take anything away from your children because of other people. They need you & the parts of your past (like Christmas traditions, the way you celebrate their birthdays etc..) that are links to their mother to take priority over your siblings family.

You need to matter in your own home too.

It must be hard for you & your children, to see another family with a mother right there 24/7 in the places that used to be your wifes.

Personally, I would be telling your sister that if she doesn't feel it's working out, she needs to be looking for alternative accommodation.
The council absolutely will not regard her family as in any need of accommodation if her kids have beds in bedrooms, the parents have a bedroom etc..
They will never be rehoused in those circumstances.

Next summer, if you normally go on holiday, will you be expected to change what you do because it's not what your sister can do?

Please, think long & hard about whether this situation is right for you & your children.

I say this as the 'poorer' relative, who has previously been widowed (many many years ago as a young woman).

My sister can & does do things I cannot imagine being able to do.
She has done things for her kids I will not be able to do for my own kids.
I'm not broke (we do just fine) but she is really wealthy.

I am happy for her success, happy for the life she has given her children.
She is happy for me & for my kids too.

But we don't have the same income, so we don't live the same life & I don't have the same choices as she does.
She wouldn't leave us starving if the worst happened, but she wouldn't give up her sons room to someone else even though he's at Uni now, because it's his room.

That is as it should be.
We are no longer children who should expect their parents to treat them equally so they get the same.

We are adults who should expect to live the lives we have made for ourselves.

Your sister cannot provide for her children right now.
It is not your job to take things from your children so hers can have more.

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ this, with bells on.

Hi20 · 26/10/2022 19:19

YANBU, Your Sister might be taking the mick and If they are waiting on a council property, they will be waiting a lot longer than a year as the council will view them as having a property to live at because you have allowed them to move in with yourself, If they decide to leave your property the council will view this as them making themselves homeless so again that will go against them, there only options will be that you give them a date when they have to be out by and write this in a letter so they can inform/show the council or they rent privately

billy1966 · 26/10/2022 19:57

@Brokendaughter an excellent post.

Livingtothefull · 26/10/2022 20:37

OverCCCs · 26/10/2022 00:01

I’m blown over by some of these comments that parents would never, under any circumstances, make their child share their room if they didn’t want to. It’s a good thing that wasn’t the attitude of people in the countryside during the Blitz, huh?

Or, goodness, maybe there was room at the Inn for Joseph, Mary, and Jesus after all but the innkeeper didn’t want to inconvenience their child for the sake of a newborn for a few nights. 🙄

Where has everyone’s compassion gone?

And seriously, OP, it would have been really helpful if you had clarified you were a male and were widowed six years ago (and not recently) much earlier in the thread. I think we’re still waiting to hear why your sister and her family are forced to live with you….

There are some seriously weird comments on this thread but this one actually took my breath away. It really was a quite nauseating read.

Just a few points/reasons why:

We are not in the Blitz. We have also (generally) become more aware of the need to respect children's feelings and allow them the space they need, than was necessarily the case in previous generations.

Nice of you to lecture the OP for not telling us how long ago he was widowed, and not to even bother expressing any empathy or sorrow at his loss. I think six years is quite recent actually, and he is having to bring up his young children alone who are likely still grieving. And it is none of our business how his sister & her family became homeless, unless he chooses to share it - so no we are not all waiting to hear.

And I would lay off lecturing 'everyone' on our lack of compassion. I would also lay off the biblical references if I were you (if you know your Bible you would know that room at the inn was required for just the night whereas the OP has offered a home to his sister's family for up to a year); as these just underline your lack of any 'Christian' compassion yourself.

mansviewpoint · 26/10/2022 20:54

Livingtothefull · 26/10/2022 20:37

There are some seriously weird comments on this thread but this one actually took my breath away. It really was a quite nauseating read.

Just a few points/reasons why:

We are not in the Blitz. We have also (generally) become more aware of the need to respect children's feelings and allow them the space they need, than was necessarily the case in previous generations.

Nice of you to lecture the OP for not telling us how long ago he was widowed, and not to even bother expressing any empathy or sorrow at his loss. I think six years is quite recent actually, and he is having to bring up his young children alone who are likely still grieving. And it is none of our business how his sister & her family became homeless, unless he chooses to share it - so no we are not all waiting to hear.

And I would lay off lecturing 'everyone' on our lack of compassion. I would also lay off the biblical references if I were you (if you know your Bible you would know that room at the inn was required for just the night whereas the OP has offered a home to his sister's family for up to a year); as these just underline your lack of any 'Christian' compassion yourself.

Show quote history

People who don't actually know about the blitz, and children being sent away from London (and other big cities) love to cite it, because they liek the phrase, "spirit of the blitz". They really need to understand, that it wasn't as rosy as they like to think.
I'm not going to go into it, because although there was good, there was bad.

Also of course for them to then go on about an inn keeper who told the family that they couldn't stay in the inn, but they could sleep in the barn where the animals were crapping, just goes to show their lack of understanding , because they have again romanticised what giving birth in a barn with animals is, in reality.

I don't understand how a 14 year old girl thinks she'll get any more privacy in a 13 year old's bedroom unless the 13 year old is kicked out, also it then means that 2 people have no privacy.

PinkStarAtNight · 26/10/2022 21:11

Lapland123 · 26/10/2022 13:25

This thread is so annoying. Martyrs thinking you offered to accommodate them so you must offer anything and everything, to the detriment of your own kids.
if people only helped when they were prepared to offer EVERYTHING, hardly anyone would help out, ever.
idiots.

We're not saying he should give them 'anything and everything'

I think having empathy for a 14yr old needing her own space is pretty basic. The answer is easy, just move the two young boys downstairs

And refraining from taking his kids out for a meal to the exculsion of the niece and nephew is also pretty basic when it comes to being decent. I don't think anyone is suggesting OP shouldn't have quality time alone with his kids. Of course thats important so he can check in with them alone and make sure they're ok.

I think the problem is the way its being done - him and kids leaving on same day at the end of every week, clearly going off for a nice meal, without the rest. He could spend time with his kids by maybe taking them out straight after school, not for dinner but for a walk or a snack. Do things on different days and different times each week, so it's not like this regular event that the other kids are left out of. I just feel doing it in that way is a bit mean to the other kids and unnecessary.

So, really the above isn't asking that OP give his sister and family 'anything and everything.' To me, both things are just basic manners/normal human decency.

SpaceshiptoMars · 26/10/2022 21:19

@tamarvin

You personally have made a big sacrifice for your sister that you don't yet know about. Someday you might want to start over and remarry. It will be much harder for this new partner to be accepted by your children, because they have already had a negative experience of living with another family.

On the other hand, you now know many of the pitfalls of blending families, so have some idea of what won't fly.

FrippEnos · 26/10/2022 21:20

PinkStarAtNight

Yes the answer is easy, Dsis and her family move out into a house that meets their needs.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/10/2022 21:23

I think the problem is the way its being done - him and kids leaving on same day at the end of every week, clearly going off for a nice meal, without the rest. He could spend time with his kids by maybe taking them out straight after school, not for dinner but for a walk or a snack. Do things on different days and different times each week, so it's not like this regular event that the other kids are left out of. I just feel doing it in that way is a bit mean to the other kids and unnecessary.

Rubbish!

The sister and her husband could make this a fun time for their own children when they can enjoy a treat, what they want on the telly, a lovely family time - but they chose to let the kids feel as though they're second best instead of saying "This is lovely - we're all together without anyone else." They could ask their children what they would like for tea and make it a special meal.

There's loads of ways they could make this a time to look forward to, rather than being resentful about.

PinkStarAtNight · 26/10/2022 21:26

@Livingtothefull
We have also (generally) become more aware of the need to respect children's feelings and allow them the space they need, than was necessarily the case in previous generations.

But most people on this thread are only showing awareness and respect for the feelings and need for space of the OP's DD, not his niece. The fact that she isn't his daughter and her parents are potentially irresponsible with money doesn't mean that she doesn't have the exact same needs as OP's DD and doesn't make these needs any less valid. Really struggling to see why people don't get that

This whole attitude of 'well shes not your daughter so not your problem' and 'you need to show your daughter that you have her back' is bizarre. If OP's daughter did turn round and say 'you're my dad you should be on MY side' I'd expect him to tell her that that's an immature attitude and its not about 'sides'. Its about two children who BOTH need their own private space and who BOTH matter. Something should be worked out to make sure they are both cared for. I really don't understand why so many people are so happy to leave the 14yr old niece to struggle, thinking 'well her parents can sort it'.

I still think there's a lot of judgement of this family going on here. People are painting them as lazy benefit scroungers who got chucked out of their council house, so they should be grateful for any scraps of help thrown their way, shut up and know their place. Their needs don't matter. Maybe the OP's sister and her DH deserve that, but the kids don't.

Its just bizarre that people are advocating so strongly for the OP's 13yr old needing her own space because she's a teen girl...but perfectly happy for the other teen girl to keep living in a communal area of a house that's not even hers, simply because of her parentage. So weird.

PinkStarAtNight · 26/10/2022 21:34

@Popgoestheweaselagain
Why can't the sister and her husband 'humble' their children by buying their own children some cheap pizza, turn g something on the TV and showing them you can have some great family time even if you don't have very much money and are crashing on a relative's sofa? 🤷

The idea that you can have great family time together with a cheap pizza is surely undermined by the OP insisting on taking his kids out for a meal - basically showing that he thinks you DO need to go out for a meal in order to have a good time. So I doubt the above message is going to land very well with the sister's kids

If it really were possible to have a great family time without a fancy meal, why can't OP skip the meals out and do something cheaper? Or at least cut them down to once a month, not EVERY WEEK. Your logic doesn't make sense. Its one rule for OP and another for the sisters family. * *

FrippEnos · 26/10/2022 21:35

PinkStarAtNight

why can't the parents of the niece move into the living room?

SpaceshiptoMars · 26/10/2022 21:36

Its just bizarre that people are advocating so strongly for the OP's 13yr old needing her own space because she's a teen girl

It isn't just because she's a teen girl. It's mainly because she is a MOTHERLESS 13 yr old, looking on from the sidelines at the complete family now living in her late mother's home.

Dad is presumably out at work, so she is often up against a mother/daughter combination alone, trying to hold her boundaries when they want to invade them. It sounds like she's already struggling with her mental health, whilst her cousin is in a sufficiently better place to be pretty vocal with her needs/wants. Ever done triage for first aid? You ignore the loud shouty ones, and concentrate your attentions on those fading out and silent.

Campfirecrash · 26/10/2022 21:38

That poor daughter though she has the worst arrangement at the worst age to have it, while the boys are probably still too young to understand the difference between homelessness and an epic extended sleepover with the cousins she is not and no one is looking out for her certainly not the parents....
Second what everyone is saying about giving the daughter the guest room but I wouldn't even let the parents stay in the living room, a 4 bedroom house usually has a basement, why wasn't that considered an option? Even if it's not finished, there's more space than the living room.
As for the dinners well, you are doing them a favor, but you shouldn't have agreed to it if you couldn't handle doing it without making the kids feel like shit, sorry. It's understandable to want to spend time with just your kids but at least invite the nice and nephew's for dinner every other week, maybe at a less expensive place, the boys would probably order off the kids menu anyway, so it's only one more full size plate, and the actual adults can deal with it. Seems like those kids would also benefit from some time away from their parents who don't prioritize them too. And then maybe plan a nice vacation for just you and your family next summer, enroll your nieces and nephews in summer camp or something where they can still have fun but give your family space. There are lots of subsidized summer camps for kids in their situation that wouldn't cost you anything too.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 26/10/2022 21:42

Your sister is being a massive CF trying to dictate the terms on which you (incredibly kindly) have them to stay.

You absolutely should not have to make your Dd give up her only bit of peace and quiet. Don’t budge on this.

Why don’t your sister and her husband take the downstairs room and give their Dd the spare bedroom? That would solve the problem if she’s so bothered.

Id probably knock the takeaways/ dinners out on the head for a bit if it’s causing controversy- you’ll save a bit of money too. However there’s nothing wrong with having separate trips out including dinners out without them if you want to - could be sanity saving!

MichaelFabricantWig · 26/10/2022 21:44

Campfirecrash · 26/10/2022 21:38

That poor daughter though she has the worst arrangement at the worst age to have it, while the boys are probably still too young to understand the difference between homelessness and an epic extended sleepover with the cousins she is not and no one is looking out for her certainly not the parents....
Second what everyone is saying about giving the daughter the guest room but I wouldn't even let the parents stay in the living room, a 4 bedroom house usually has a basement, why wasn't that considered an option? Even if it's not finished, there's more space than the living room.
As for the dinners well, you are doing them a favor, but you shouldn't have agreed to it if you couldn't handle doing it without making the kids feel like shit, sorry. It's understandable to want to spend time with just your kids but at least invite the nice and nephew's for dinner every other week, maybe at a less expensive place, the boys would probably order off the kids menu anyway, so it's only one more full size plate, and the actual adults can deal with it. Seems like those kids would also benefit from some time away from their parents who don't prioritize them too. And then maybe plan a nice vacation for just you and your family next summer, enroll your nieces and nephews in summer camp or something where they can still have fun but give your family space. There are lots of subsidized summer camps for kids in their situation that wouldn't cost you anything too.

Jesus wept

why should the OP pay out yet more money for these freeloaders?

the cheeky fuckers aren’t paying any rent far less having to absorb the costs of 5 more people in their house so they can pay for their own meal out and kids club.

I wonder how many people preaching at the OP would be anywhere near as obliging as he has been at all, not many I guess.

nocoolnamesleft · 26/10/2022 22:01

Campfirecrash · 26/10/2022 21:38

That poor daughter though she has the worst arrangement at the worst age to have it, while the boys are probably still too young to understand the difference between homelessness and an epic extended sleepover with the cousins she is not and no one is looking out for her certainly not the parents....
Second what everyone is saying about giving the daughter the guest room but I wouldn't even let the parents stay in the living room, a 4 bedroom house usually has a basement, why wasn't that considered an option? Even if it's not finished, there's more space than the living room.
As for the dinners well, you are doing them a favor, but you shouldn't have agreed to it if you couldn't handle doing it without making the kids feel like shit, sorry. It's understandable to want to spend time with just your kids but at least invite the nice and nephew's for dinner every other week, maybe at a less expensive place, the boys would probably order off the kids menu anyway, so it's only one more full size plate, and the actual adults can deal with it. Seems like those kids would also benefit from some time away from their parents who don't prioritize them too. And then maybe plan a nice vacation for just you and your family next summer, enroll your nieces and nephews in summer camp or something where they can still have fun but give your family space. There are lots of subsidized summer camps for kids in their situation that wouldn't cost you anything too.

Basement? Bloody hell, how low is the water table where you are? Hardly any houses have basements. The only one I have ever been in that did was my grandma's Victorian terrace, which had a cellar that was flooded more often than not.

Original poster

tamarvin · 26/10/2022 22:05

@nocoolnamesleft yeah, I don't have a basement. I don't think any of the houses around me do either. They're all fairly new.

OP posts:

Ilovetocrochet · 26/10/2022 22:07

Campfirecrash · 26/10/2022 21:38

That poor daughter though she has the worst arrangement at the worst age to have it, while the boys are probably still too young to understand the difference between homelessness and an epic extended sleepover with the cousins she is not and no one is looking out for her certainly not the parents....
Second what everyone is saying about giving the daughter the guest room but I wouldn't even let the parents stay in the living room, a 4 bedroom house usually has a basement, why wasn't that considered an option? Even if it's not finished, there's more space than the living room.
As for the dinners well, you are doing them a favor, but you shouldn't have agreed to it if you couldn't handle doing it without making the kids feel like shit, sorry. It's understandable to want to spend time with just your kids but at least invite the nice and nephew's for dinner every other week, maybe at a less expensive place, the boys would probably order off the kids menu anyway, so it's only one more full size plate, and the actual adults can deal with it. Seems like those kids would also benefit from some time away from their parents who don't prioritize them too. And then maybe plan a nice vacation for just you and your family next summer, enroll your nieces and nephews in summer camp or something where they can still have fun but give your family space. There are lots of subsidized summer camps for kids in their situation that wouldn't cost you anything too.

I guess you must live in the US where many homes do have basements. Unfortunately very few houses here in the UK have them, certainly not those built in the last 100 years.

There is sometimes room to extend into the roof space but that is a very costly conversion and not all houses are suitable.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/10/2022 22:09

PinkStarAtNight · 26/10/2022 21:11

We're not saying he should give them 'anything and everything'

I think having empathy for a 14yr old needing her own space is pretty basic. The answer is easy, just move the two young boys downstairs

And refraining from taking his kids out for a meal to the exculsion of the niece and nephew is also pretty basic when it comes to being decent. I don't think anyone is suggesting OP shouldn't have quality time alone with his kids. Of course thats important so he can check in with them alone and make sure they're ok.

I think the problem is the way its being done - him and kids leaving on same day at the end of every week, clearly going off for a nice meal, without the rest. He could spend time with his kids by maybe taking them out straight after school, not for dinner but for a walk or a snack. Do things on different days and different times each week, so it's not like this regular event that the other kids are left out of. I just feel doing it in that way is a bit mean to the other kids and unnecessary.

So, really the above isn't asking that OP give his sister and family 'anything and everything.' To me, both things are just basic manners/normal human decency.

Show quote history

I think having empathy for a 14 yo needing her own space is pretty basic. The answer is easy, just move the two young boys downstairs.

@PinkStarAtNight
You think the easy solution is for op to move his 11 year old ds out of his own bedroom and downstairs to make way for his 14 yo cousin? And that they should stop going out for meals? The meals are family time for a breather and catch up. They in turn are leaving his dsis and partner alone for their family time if they so choose. If anything, op could insist the sister and 3 kids go out, so that he can have some quality time with his dcs.