Liz Truss has resigned. Part 4: The Desolation of Boris

[sunnydaytoday0]

Continuation from last thread, for those of us following all the action on Monday.

And yes I'm a LOTR fan, so tried to continue the theme in the thread title 😉

A few things.

The Liz Truss private phone thing is part of an ongoing trend amongst senior politicians and its putting sensitive information at risk.

We know that Cummings, Johnson, Braverman and Truss have been using insecure communications.

Secondly if Truss has been compromised, the very first people to know she's been compromised are the hackers!!! We don't have any reason to keep it secret from the Russians because they are well aware of the problem.

Thirdly, given we know that senior politicians are regularly using insecure communications already, I fail to see why making this story public further compromises us with other potential security threats of a similar nature with other countries. They also know already, how lax our senior politicians are.

What needs to change is that senior politicians need to start taking this threat more seriously instead of goofing off and making lame excuses about it. It should be a sackable offence. And not sackable for 10 ten mins. It should be taken a lot more seriously.

Making it public applies pressure on politicians to stop being dickhead about it. Cos its about holding power to account. In theory. But as I say if you then reappoint them 30 seconds later it does make a mockery of the issue.

It then undermines the credibility of the PM...

It's pretty salient that these stories are being revealed now. Truss and Kwarteng is an old story, repackaged.

Braverman, and unlawful detention. I do not think is the actual issue is new either. Maybe the scale of it is.

This morning however I note that Johnson is going to COP.

They are a circus, and as these stories indicate, there are huge problems. It is just that they have lost control. The way decisions have been since 2019 by politicians is the common factor. Some not very good people effectively shouting they get what they want. That's it, no experts....

A former diplomat writes:

Arthur Snell at snellarthur
I love the naïveté of those that think Liz Truss is the only world leader whose phone has been hacked. Any politician, anywhere, using their regular mobile number for national security business should assume it’s been intercepted both by allies and adversaries.

In other words. This is properly basic shit that should not be happening at all.

Then again The Guardian, not a natural ally being positive. That’s the second positive article from them

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/30/sunak-tories-labour-repair-economy-voters-new-poll

Why would Snell know this? just an opinion or has he any evidence? Not seen any similar stories involving other leaders, apart from Johnson.

We all know what happened when Clinton was even hinted at using a private email account.

Sounds to me like another Tory supporter saying "oh but look over there"

There’s another level to consider re the Liz Truss hacking - the security services may have been fully aware of the situation. Sometimes you don’t let your enemy know that you know that they know - it’s an excellent way to spread disinformation.

Ha ha working well isn't it? we are certainly outfoxing that Foxy Putin!

It was held back by BJ, Truss was his preferred replacement & this coming out then would have ruined her chances.

Nothing more, we aren't that smart.

Oh I’m not saying that is what happened, just saying it’s a possibility <clutches at straws>

Our Government is inpet, but I’d like to hope that the security forces themselves are a bit more on the ball!

The idea of using the PM as some sort of unwitting double agent is worthy of a Mick Herron thriller.
Shame there isn’t a real life Jackson Lamb to sort it out.

To be fair Snell is a former very senior diplomat so would absolutely know this sort of thing. Anyone who works in diplomatic circles in any capacity knows how insecure personal devices are.

So she actually discussed sensitive details of arms shipments to Ukraine as well as other things on a personal unsecure device? If that is allowed to be minimised then I hate to think what a serious national security breach is.

Remember that Johnson's phone number was available online for 15 years after it was published in a 2006 press release.

He used this phone to beg for votes last week.

Anyone read this in the Times about Truss’s previous stints in government:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4a578808-5700-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=e5ec2ad2b3a234aefaa195ff06c4059e

Really beggars belief that anyone can have considered to be leadership material. She sounds totally vacuous, narcissistic and manic.

I'd agree with a lot of that...there's certainly an underlying and apparently persistent issue with politicians being slack when it comes to communications and security

OTOH I'm not sure we should necessarily believe a least at the moment parts of the story about how the breach came to light.

I'm furious! We are not safe in their hands. Our children are not safe in their hands. Where are our security services? Is treason no longer a thing?!

So what I don't understand is if Putin had a year's worth of her phone messages including discussions about Ukraine, why didn't he do anything with it? Why didn't he blackmail her into UK pulling their support for Ukraine? Why was the UK still posturing, talking about "Putin's appalling war in Ukraine" as a soundbite?

And who is leaking this - Sunak, presumably. How does he think this makes him and Braverman look any better (Tories do love whatabouttery, tbf). It's the same fucking government and they all need to go.

And yet the general public now apparently trust Sunak more than Starmer 🤔

An ITV editor/journalist will now be the Tories' director of communications....how cosy 🤔

Sunak is going to win the next election, isn't he?

Sunak is going to win the next election, isn't he?

Looking at his personal polls he’s doing well and it has taken some concerns around race and wealth away tg

But I wouldn’t say it’s a given, either way.

Lets scotch the idea that the UK is the main weapons supplier to Ukraine, it isn't, the US sends many many times more weapons/aid, but did Truss phone Wallace is a perhaps a better question in this regard?

On Snell, anyone with half a brain knows personal devices are insecure, understandably Truss didn't! i'm questioning why he thinks this is common place in the west? evidence!

As for Security Services on the ball? so much so they were on the ball, that Truss and presumably everyone else in Govt, inc advisors are allowed to have phones with no security on them.

Every possibility Sunak will win, UK is a right wing country & becoming more so, only nation to leave EU primarily based on racism, almost every asset in private hands and in the main has voted Tory for the last 75 years.

Even the right wing populist parties in France Austria and Italy are happy to stay in the EU.

Depressing really.

Yes the UK is not the main weapons supplier but who's to say those intercepted conversations helped to put us being at the top of Putin's nuclear threat. Back in September there was that ranting interview from an ex putin advisor saying Russia blamed Biden, Johnson and Truss.

As for Security Services on the ball? so much so they were on the ball, that Truss and presumably everyone else in Govt, inc advisors are allowed to have phones with no security on them.

Maybe politicians are issued with devices that have security features....problem seems to be stopping the stupid talking about stuff they shouldn't on potentially insecure devices...bet this latest episode has got some in the security services tearing their hair out..again.

I think somebody made the point a while back upthread (possibly @Alexandra2001) about security briefings you get in some lines of work. Seems the senior politicians either don't get them or choose to ignore them...perhaps time for one or two prosecutions?

Fat chance I know.....

This story is not what it seems. It’s been parcelled up for a gullible public. Probably to put the final nail in her coffin.

Any ful no how easy it is to monitor/intercept mobile phones - the security line would be to assume that any conversation or message on them is intercepted.

As Edward Snowden said: your mobile phone is a tracking device that makes calls.

Don’t forget security services have their own political angle and their own media feeds. If they are directly briefing the press on this, it’s for an agenda of their own we may not be aware of.

Braverman wasn't Sunak’s choice. He was compelled to reappoint her in return for her support which was instrumental in helping to eliminate Johnson from the leadership race. If Sunak does seek better relations with other countries Braverman is a liabity waiting to happen...

I don’t agree with this. BJ was never a contender, and the idea he did was just puff from his camp. It was also clear that the Tory enforcers put their weight behind Sunak and a determination to insist also rans drop out to avoid the member vote.

Sunak did need to appoint some ERGers to the cabinet to keep them onside but it didn’t need to be Braverman. He could have argued to them with justification that she was compromised to the point of undermining their cause.

"Maybe politicians are issued with devices that have security features."

I've always assumed that anyone, particularly Ministers, handling sensitive information are provided with a secure means to access it and trained in how to protect & store information.
Is that just naive? Are they just wondering around with their old "civilian" phones pinging messages about dinner along with top secret briefings sitting in their inbox?

The GCHQ Tempora programme, revealed by Snowden nearly 10 years ago now, allows our own security services to routinely collect, process and store huge amounts of global digital communications - including email, internet, phone, social media posts and private messages - of everyone in the country - not simply in the government.

As was revealed at the time, the US are at it too, so too, we must assume are Russia and China.

That is done by intercepting fibre optic cable carrying most internet communication. But mobile phone calls are also easily hackable not just by security services but law enforcement, malware apps, and well, anyone.

The idea that the foreign secretary is not aware of this, and doesn’t have security training and provision is absurd.

The articles in the Times and Telegraph seem to aim to position Truss and KK as two random idiots to discredit them further - possibly to imply they’re not representative of the Tories and U.K.

Nobody has any privacy with an IPhone anyway, or an Alexa or similar speaker. The only real security that works is keeping your mouth shut and on a need to know basis.

sending government business via email or other personal device just means it is hoovered up by security agencies all over the world. If you are in top flight politics and think that doesn't apply to you, you are a security risk, not an asset.

@Mirabai

Good post..

The idea that the foreign secretary is not aware of this, and doesn’t have security training and provision is absurd.

I've seen comment by some who have facilitated such training that a few in High Office/High rank tend to be disinclined to fully engage in such training or perhaps think it doesn't apply to them at all...it's only something that applies to the junior ranks or grades.

Whether that's a factor in the current case...don't know.