Hard to see her in same way

[Perditanoy]

I have a friend I've known for about a decade. Met at uni. Lots in common.

After uni we never lived close by but caught up on text every few months and saw each other periodically. She had the same boyfriend for years but was always so adamant she'd never get married or have kids. Very career-oriented, did loads of travelling and had great hobbies.

I really came to admire her stance and honesty on the marriage and kids thing as she wasn't afraid to say it wasn't for her despite the usual societal pressures. It was refreshing. She was quite clear on all her reasons for her views and we had many conversations about it. It wasn't necessarily going to be the path I took but I loved having a proudly independent female friend who wasn't pining to get married and have babies and was going to do it her way. I really looked up to her.

Then a few years ago just before lockdown, her and her partner bought a house. For legal reasons they then decided to marry given their new situation with the property (they live abroad). It was a closed door wedding and she had no fuss or even family attend. Just one witness. Fair enough. Owning property sometimes means marriage is a better option for tax/ inheritance reasons.

I saw her around this time and she was still 100% no on kids however. Her partner didn't agree though and they'd had a lot of arguments about it.

Then last year she got pregnant and has since had a kid. I found out via social media and she never let me know directly. I called to congratulate her of course but she seemed quite sheepish about it, almost embarrassed. She mentioned relatives that had trouble getting pregnant and were desperate for kids yet she hadn't been and it all happened easily.

Since then we've had occasional contact but not as much and usually about things related to hobbies. I asked a couple of baby questions but she never answered. It's fair to say we've drifted, also due to post-lockdown and living so far away. I'm OK with this as I know friendships can change but I've been reflecting on how she did a 180 on things she seemed so against all the time I knew her. Maybe I never really knew her at all?

I know people change their minds, life moves on, situations crop up so there's no judgement of her about any of this.

But for so long I saw her as the cool independent one. I put her on a pedestal and I admired her resistance to doing what is expected of every woman in society. And she was so adamant for years that that life wasn't for her. So her change of heart did come as a real shock and I guess it was hard to see her in the same way. I honestly never thought she'd change her mind as she holds very strong opinions and convictions.

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

I think there are lots of us who could relate to being strong-willed, outspoken and somewhat idealistic in our 20s.

With every decade that passes, you realise that some views you once held so vehemently maybe aren’t as clear cut as you thought. With age comes wisdom. Some things change, some things don’t - but it’s possible to appreciate nuance more easily with a bit of life experience behind you.

Shes the same person you always knew - it takes a confident woman to be strong enough to admit that her opinion has changed. She’s still showing you that she’s strong and independent by pursuing a life path that she wants. She didn’t want marriage and kids but now she does. Sounds like she’ll be an ace role model for her child.

I echo others OP, your views are a bit unusual in hero worshipping her. Were you perhaps living vicariously through her? Not trying to be unkind but might explain your misplaced disappointment in her change of heart.

Being childfree doesn't equal to being independent and cool. Hopefully this isn't you judging people for having kids but It was an attitude you liked, she probably still has that attitude. You probably should think about what this says about you more than what it says about her. People are human, they may put decisive brave faces but maybe insecure or uncertain about things inside, maybe they may simply grow up change their minds. Maybe that decisiveness was about convincing herself. Adulthood is about greys not so much black and whites.

Totally agree with @SpidersAreShitheads at 20:53

This is why I feel like I need to defend myself over winding up with a child. Because people are so opinionated about women and their wombs. Fuck me.
I didn’t want children. Truly. But I wound up pregnant and decided to go with it because on paper my life was in a perfect place for a child. The only thing missing was my actual want to continue with my pregnancy. Nevertheless, I did continue with it and I’m rather good at motherhood as it goes. I love my kid but I’m not a schmaltzy, naturally maternal woman at all. I think, for me, that’s a strength.

I’ve had people accuse me of lying about not wanting kids. Lying. Why? Why would I lie?

Firstly why the fuck do people think they have a right to accuse me of that? Secondly, it transpires whatever you do with your womb as a woman, other people seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that they get to have an opinion on it and can use it against you.

I say, fuck off.

Hard to see her in the same way? God OP I'd say if she read your post she'd hardly want to see you at all now.

I'm so uncomfortable reading this - for her. You're very intense and over invested in her life and choices, so she changed her mind, she didn't have to run it by you or inform you of anything. I actually have had quite a similar timeline to your friend over the last ten years, same views and everything. I'm not going to offer explanations as to why she changed because frankly, it's none of your business. I will say that your explanation as to why you put her on a pedestal is quite weird. Stop fixating on her.

Also:

I found out via social media and she never let me know directly. I called to congratulate her of course but she seemed quite sheepish about it, almost embarrassed.

Yeah because you called her. You could have commented on social media instead of phoning her up and putting her on the spot and I'm willing to bet money that you said something along the lines of "I didn't even know you were pregnant!" in which case she probably thought because I didn't tell you. The friendship has changed and she's moved on. Just let go.

Here why are you quoting me? I'm not judging.

You say "I’ve had people accuse me of lying about not wanting kids. Lying. Why? Why would I lie?"

I was accused of it too. One friend does still lie because she can't have them and prefers to say this.

when I said some might be talking nonsense, the older I get, the more I realise some people say anything at all for reasons I can't fathom. It might be that in teens and twenties, some people said it because they thought I'd like them more?

I have never accused anyone of lying, just pondering on a chat board.

I'm not so sure what's so 'cool' about not having kids. I'm a lesbian and never had any, as have plenty of my friends.

People say dumb things when they are teenagers. I remember a girl I went to Uni with telling everyone who would listen that she was going to be famous, although she couldn't decide if she was going to be an actress or a singer. A couple of years ago, I heard from a mutual friend that she was a grandmother and had worked for the same insurance company for thirty years.

Likewise, I remember all the friends who were so insistence that they would die young and are still around today.

I'm not sure why you thought your friend was so 'cool'. She sounds very unmaternal. I wonder what type of mother she is today?

It's odd how you worshipped this woman. I don't recall anyone at Uni enthusing about having children - everyone had ambitions of one sort or another, or were too busy getting wasted.

I said I’d never marry or have dc then I met dh and my world changed. Been married 18 years and have 3dc. I’d fine it odd if a friend had put me on a pedestal. That said bil and sil married but didn’t want dc and we understood and admired their choice but they changed their mind in lockdown - I think many people reassessed priorities.

I'm going to be very forward here and ask if your attraction to her was sexual / a crush?

Perhaps the idea that she was so vocal about not having children led you to somewhat believe she was a lesbian and maybe you had a crush on her?

I'm a lesbian, but when I was younger avoided all references to having children. When asked if I was married or had kids, I would often say that I hadn't met the right person yet (of course, the opposite is true as I had quite an active but clandestine double life).

It's only now in my 50s that I've started openly telling people that my partner is another woman, prior to that I always lived with same sex 'friends'. I also have several gay male friends who would stand in at more formal conventional functions. One, who is a distinguished academic, even proposed a marriage of convenience but I couldn't be bothered with all that and besides I always managed well by myself... you could say I am one of those 'independent' women you admire so much... but not by choice.

In a different lifetime, I would have loved being married and having a couple of kids, but sadly I never found men physically attractive. Love their minds, just not their dicks!

You are over invested in someone's else life.

Could you be jealous?

everyone has the right to change their mind whenever on what ever they want.
Stop judging and interfering.
You sounds very immature and quite scary.

Yeah because you called her. You could have commented on social media instead of phoning her up and putting her on the spot

Missed that bit. Yeah, that is weird.
And from your stance it’s not like you actually called her to ‘congratulate’ her as you say at all OP - you’ve made it clear here that you’re not happy or excited for her. As others have said you are over invested in her life choices and the phone call seems like more of an odd check in and you are implicitly calling up to call her out on her choices. No wonder it was awkward.