Hard to see her in same way

[Perditanoy]

I have a friend I've known for about a decade. Met at uni. Lots in common.

After uni we never lived close by but caught up on text every few months and saw each other periodically. She had the same boyfriend for years but was always so adamant she'd never get married or have kids. Very career-oriented, did loads of travelling and had great hobbies.

I really came to admire her stance and honesty on the marriage and kids thing as she wasn't afraid to say it wasn't for her despite the usual societal pressures. It was refreshing. She was quite clear on all her reasons for her views and we had many conversations about it. It wasn't necessarily going to be the path I took but I loved having a proudly independent female friend who wasn't pining to get married and have babies and was going to do it her way. I really looked up to her.

Then a few years ago just before lockdown, her and her partner bought a house. For legal reasons they then decided to marry given their new situation with the property (they live abroad). It was a closed door wedding and she had no fuss or even family attend. Just one witness. Fair enough. Owning property sometimes means marriage is a better option for tax/ inheritance reasons.

I saw her around this time and she was still 100% no on kids however. Her partner didn't agree though and they'd had a lot of arguments about it.

Then last year she got pregnant and has since had a kid. I found out via social media and she never let me know directly. I called to congratulate her of course but she seemed quite sheepish about it, almost embarrassed. She mentioned relatives that had trouble getting pregnant and were desperate for kids yet she hadn't been and it all happened easily.

Since then we've had occasional contact but not as much and usually about things related to hobbies. I asked a couple of baby questions but she never answered. It's fair to say we've drifted, also due to post-lockdown and living so far away. I'm OK with this as I know friendships can change but I've been reflecting on how she did a 180 on things she seemed so against all the time I knew her. Maybe I never really knew her at all?

I know people change their minds, life moves on, situations crop up so there's no judgement of her about any of this.

But for so long I saw her as the cool independent one. I put her on a pedestal and I admired her resistance to doing what is expected of every woman in society. And she was so adamant for years that that life wasn't for her. So her change of heart did come as a real shock and I guess it was hard to see her in the same way. I honestly never thought she'd change her mind as she holds very strong opinions and convictions.

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

Putting people on a pedant is never a good idea. This is nothing to do with her, she's living her life.

This is on you entirely.

OP, do you honestly believe that you can't possibly be cool, interesting or independent if you are married and have children?

Perhaps your friend grew up and realised that marriage to the right person and having children you love can actually enhance your life, not ruin it.

It's a shame you think that you think women are not able to be cool and independent if they are also a wife and a mother. It seems rather sexist to me.

You are far to invested in this women's life & her choices and tbh it is really strange. If anything, she would be unable to look at you the same if she read this.

Exactly.

I think seeing as you haven't got the first clue about the circumstances of her pregnancy or how she feels about motherhood now you're being ridiculously judgy.
Most people at 20 believe they have their entire lives figured out, it's all bollocks really.

Nobody has a crystal ball to plan their lives

Sometimes life throws things at us that we were not expecting, some good, some bad

Many people have reassessed their lives during & after covid & have made changes

I've supported my friends through the good, bad & the unexpected

Several of my friends do not have children & they are still my lovely friends. People are not lesser or greater for not having children & none of them are on a pedestal (wink)

Some people know exactly what they want

Some people drift along

Some people chop & change

Everyone is different, that's what makes people interesting

Your investment in her is very weird, but going with your strange thought of you admiring her because she did what she wanted, is this not extra admirable of her because she has completely changed her mind and followed through instead of sticking to "no children" which would've been easier as she wouldn't have people she had voiced her opinion to (you) judging her and questioning her now....

I've been her, I did change my mind, best decision I ever made, and I have pushed a close friend to an acquaintance because she judged me and called the child a mistake! Don't be that dick!

Wow quite a few nasty comments. Forget how vicious it gets on here.

There isn't judgement or obsession, I've been reflecting about a few friendships that dwindled since Covid and this was one of them. It's been a learning curve about not putting people on pedestals and how people can change in 30s. I've also changed my mind about things so I accept its the way it goes.

As I mentioned in my 20s I had low self esteem and came out of an abusive relationship so I probably overly admired certain female friends who seem unbothered by men or motherhood as I was trying to forge a new path for myself at the time and build myself up. They were almost role models for me as I tried to get away from shadow of nasty abusive ex.

My own life has since taken a new and better direction so it's all good.

Honestly I find your hero-worship of her choices really odd. Surely it’s even more admirable that she’s not so stubborn to cling to a lifestyle she now wants to change?

I do not find your attitude ‘odd’ as some posters say. I think it is just life, growing up and learning about people. Many years ago ( when I was much younger) I had a colleague/ casual friend who was a fierce environmentalist, had high standards in her work, was a vegetarian and animal rights supporter, watched her weight carefully, spent her spare time drystone walling. Compared with her I felt quite inadequate- I liked drinking, slobbing in front of the TV, sometimes, buying fish and chips to save cooking for my family etc.
Then she got pregnant. She and her husband felt it was the wrong time to start a family and she had an abortion. I was deeply shocked. At the time, I saw it as throwing away a life for convenience. It changed my whole attitude to other people and how I regarded myself. I thought she was full of shit and I thought I wasn’t too bad really. You live and learn and maybe that’s what the OP is experiencing.

I get what you mean but people change. I never wanted marriage and have stuck to it.. I was even more adamant I would never have babies, never felt maternal towards kids.. then I accidentally got pregnant in my late 20s and instantly wanted to keep it. I love my kids more than life itself and LOVE being a mum.
If I'd been more careful with contraception I might not have ever found that out.

Sometimes when we deny things to ourselves, it's not because we don't want them deep down.. we just want to stick a finger up to society and expectations. And when we're young things can be very black and white.

Everything @GoldenGorilla said in the first reply, and I agree with @ChiefWiggumsBoy just above this post

People can change their minds, it’s always a problem hero worshipping anyone, avoid doing that.

I was quite like your mate but to my surprise met DH when I was 30 and by 34 was married and had a child. I’m glad your life has improved.

You're being unreasonable... but I know it can be a bit confusing when people change everything they have stood for so strongly.
Imagine as her life moved on and she felt like she wanted kids, she didn't because once upon a time she told her friends she was against that, and she didn't want to lose face.
I think she's more admirable for changing her views to be honest! Sometimes when something isn't on the cards for you it's easy to be adamant you don't want it anyway, but when the opportunity comes along something in your heart changes and it becomes everything you didn't know you always wanted.

I think the way you have expressed this is quite strange, but if it had been worded along the lines of "I find it harder to relate to her..." then the comments would have been much kinder.

It's quite common when we are young to fit people into boxes, to have friends that are essentially bit parts in your own drama, fitting certain roles. You have clubbing friends, work friends, the gay best friend, the fitness freak, the calm one you call mature but really find a bit dull, the glamorous one, the one you put the world to rights with..... so much of our culture re-emphasises this as normal, but it isn't the way life really works. Friendships evolve by really getting to know people, often through different circumstances and life changes, talking through these changes and supporting each other as you go.

I think if you spend some time re-connecting with her, you will find it was like you were never apart and this image will fall away, replaced by the real person. I think it is probably worth trying.

She changed her mind/got married/was hit by the broody bug/COVID happened...

Do you still have the exactly same opinions about everything that you did 10 years ago? Or are you just jealous that her life has moved on?

What a strange attitude to have to a 'friend'. Why would you not be happy for her?

Wow

You're basically saying people shouldn't change. Ever.

I mean, how dare your friend! imagine, changing views and beliefs she formed in her teens/early 20s and allowing her life partner, now husband (a sensible change that made sense for her to marry, btw), not to be allowed input into their joint lives all these years later.

FFS

You put her on a pedestal; she didn't put herself there. And she's grown, evolved, and modified her views on the world and her life in it. As people do.

Awww ignore the nasty comments. Sounds like you've just both grown up. You have learnt a lesson for perhaps placing too much admiration on her for something there was a good chance she would change her mind over, and her for being so adamant about something she could possibly change her mind over or end up finding herself in the position.

Just life really. Glad things are going well for you and sounds like things are going well for her too ( even if it's the life she didn't envisage!)

If I had a friend who was heavily invested in an idea... say they wanted to save the environment and stopped flying anywhere and then you found out they were travelling around the world in a boeing 747 I would feel a bit confused. If someone spends a lot of time justifying a choice and then does a 180 it can leave you feeling like you don't know them. And if you only found out they were travelling the world through second hand information well... I would wonder what was going on. So I can understand your feelings.

You ask if you shouldn't have believed her and put her on a pedestal... Well of course you should have believed her, because this was her being honest at the time and she wasn't being dishonest when it changed - her life changed for reasons you don't know. But you should never put people on a pedestal at all. People are not perfect and it isn't their job to be perfect so that you feel safer. No one survives the pedestal for long and who the hell would want to? I've been put on a pedestal by a couple of people and it is deeply uncomfortable because you are letting other people down when you don't behave as you are expected, and you risk the relationship, which is stressful.

You have an opportunity here to learn that the only person you can know fully is yourself, and even that might be up for debate! We do lots of things as humans we don't understand! She reassessed and changed her mind, and that is human. It doesn't mean she is deceitful and it doesn't mean that people can't be trusted because this sort of reverse decision might happen. You are almost there, you know the issue is in you and you will sort this out, I have no doubt!

I hope this post isn't nasty, I don't intend to be but I know I can come across as harsher as I want to in real life!

People change and surprise you!

It sounds like she was just the friend you needed at that point in your life. Not all friendships stand the of time, but that didn't mean they don't have a place or value. Your friendship back then helped you to move on and be the person you are today.

FTR, when I was a teenager growing up in a miserable home, I swore I'd never marry or have children because I didn't have a happy example.

Now happily married with three teenagers.

People grow and change, why is that hard for you to understand?! She was obviously aware of how you viewed her hence not wanting to tell you.
I never wanted have children btw. I wasn't massively vocal about it but my close friends knew. When dc came along (unplanned, but as it turned out very much wanted) my friends were chuffed for us. None of them brought up the fact we'd changed our minds!

She fell in love. It happens. Getting married can be a sensible idea depending on your situation.

As for children. Sadlu, she wouldn't be the first person to have a child they didn't really want to have because their partner kept on at them about it. I say this because you mentioned him having lots of arguments with her about it.

It's very likely that she's sheepish about mentioning her child to you for the very reason you've given yourself. She thinks you're going to judge her because she's changed her mind, which is what you've done.

People do. They grow up, their priorities and opinions change and life moves on.

You sounds as if your attitude to her is stuck in a time of life when she shared your views.

A young woman in a early 20s is inexperienced in life and full of strong opinions, many of which they will very likely ditch as they mature.

She has matured and wants different things now from the things she wanted in her 20s. All perfectly normal.

It's a huge mistake to put someone on a pedestal. People are not idols.

Perhaps she was hoping not to get pregnant and got talked into it and it happened quickly. Perhaps she still doesn’t love being a mum and that’s why she hasn’t talked about it? Maybe go out just the two of you and talk about other things. She may desperately want that?