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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Hard to see her in same way

136 replies

Perditanoy · 23/10/2022 17:02

I have a friend I've known for about a decade. Met at uni. Lots in common.

After uni we never lived close by but caught up on text every few months and saw each other periodically. She had the same boyfriend for years but was always so adamant she'd never get married or have kids. Very career-oriented, did loads of travelling and had great hobbies.

I really came to admire her stance and honesty on the marriage and kids thing as she wasn't afraid to say it wasn't for her despite the usual societal pressures. It was refreshing. She was quite clear on all her reasons for her views and we had many conversations about it. It wasn't necessarily going to be the path I took but I loved having a proudly independent female friend who wasn't pining to get married and have babies and was going to do it her way. I really looked up to her.

Then a few years ago just before lockdown, her and her partner bought a house. For legal reasons they then decided to marry given their new situation with the property (they live abroad). It was a closed door wedding and she had no fuss or even family attend. Just one witness. Fair enough. Owning property sometimes means marriage is a better option for tax/ inheritance reasons.

I saw her around this time and she was still 100% no on kids however. Her partner didn't agree though and they'd had a lot of arguments about it.

Then last year she got pregnant and has since had a kid. I found out via social media and she never let me know directly. I called to congratulate her of course but she seemed quite sheepish about it, almost embarrassed. She mentioned relatives that had trouble getting pregnant and were desperate for kids yet she hadn't been and it all happened easily.

Since then we've had occasional contact but not as much and usually about things related to hobbies. I asked a couple of baby questions but she never answered. It's fair to say we've drifted, also due to post-lockdown and living so far away. I'm OK with this as I know friendships can change but I've been reflecting on how she did a 180 on things she seemed so against all the time I knew her. Maybe I never really knew her at all?

I know people change their minds, life moves on, situations crop up so there's no judgement of her about any of this.

But for so long I saw her as the cool independent one. I put her on a pedestal and I admired her resistance to doing what is expected of every woman in society. And she was so adamant for years that that life wasn't for her. So her change of heart did come as a real shock and I guess it was hard to see her in the same way. I honestly never thought she'd change her mind as she holds very strong opinions and convictions.

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

OP posts:
BlackKittyMama · 23/10/2022 19:48

I always made out I didn’t want kids, but I secretly really did. I was terrified that I was infertile, and I suppose I was trying protect myself from heartache by convincing myself. Not suggesting it’s the same for your friend, but consider that there are many possibilities. At the end of the day, she is still making a choice for herself.

Confusion101 · 23/10/2022 19:49

BlackKittyMama · 23/10/2022 19:48

I always made out I didn’t want kids, but I secretly really did. I was terrified that I was infertile, and I suppose I was trying protect myself from heartache by convincing myself. Not suggesting it’s the same for your friend, but consider that there are many possibilities. At the end of the day, she is still making a choice for herself.

Exactly the same situation here

SingingInTheAttic · 23/10/2022 19:51

EmmaH2022 · 23/10/2022 19:44

No I didn't judge them.

i am god parent - not guardian - in one case and having a child was a great thing for him and his wife.

I don't think OP is judging either. It's just a bit hard if you feel that someone was maybe talking nonsense all along. But maybe I'm projecting on to OP.

Show quote history

Ha. I am a similar age to you and have just realised that a lot of people do just talk nonsense. Not least myself. It can be very easy to feel clear about your own opinion but the more time you spend on it, the more shades of grey that appear, I have put up my hands and declared "I know nothing". I really am just swimming against the tide in having an opinion about anything because everything seems confusing at times!

Maybe I should get off mumsnet though because opinions seem very clear on here!

Butchyrestingface · 23/10/2022 19:53

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

As others have been said, YABU:

  • to have been "so shocked" at her having children (NOT something, as you claim "everyone else does")
  • put her on such a pedestal

Changing one's mind about having kids is pretty common. It's not like she went from thinking "Donald Trump is an evil cunt" to "I love Donald Trump and want to have HIS babies".

It doesn't seem as if you've had much exposure to people if this is enough to shock you.

daisychain01 · 23/10/2022 19:54

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

Why should she have to comply with your expectations? You're not her keeper, she clearly lives her own fantastic unapologetic life.

it's a shame you haven't cottoned on to the fact that we all change and evolve over our lifetime and may reinvent ourselves numerous times.

I'm sorry to say it like this but you're the type of person I probably wouldn't choose as a friend because you would have a set idea of who I am and I'd be worried I'd have to come and seek your permission for any change I chose to make.

Beautiful3 · 23/10/2022 19:54

She simply grew older and changed her mind. It happens to alot of women. I know what you mean. I had a colleague who I knew for 8 years. For the first 5 years he was a vegan and held interesting views. The last 3 years he started eating meat again, and his views on politics and the world changed. At the time I felt annoyed that he'd changed, and felt like I never really knew him. But the truth is, he just got older, matured and changed his mind. He's allowed to change his mind.

Obki · 23/10/2022 19:55

I put her on a pedestal and I admired her resistance to doing what is expected of every woman in society. And she was so adamant for years that that life wasn't for her. So her change of heart did come as a real shock and I guess it was hard to see her in the same way.

So she was supposed to remain on a pedestal like a statue rather than a flesh and blood human who can change and grow? Fuck that.

OP, she owes you nothing and YABU for expecting her to be a child free anecdote you can gossip about.

nutbrownhare15 · 23/10/2022 20:02

Based on threads I have read on here plenty of people wish they'd never had kids.so change their mind the other way (too late of course). I think it's relatively common for people who might say in their 20s they don't want kids to change their minds in their 30s or 40s. The confidence in her stance seems to have really.shaped how you saw her so it makes sense that you don't see her in the same way now. However people are much more than their opinions/stance on one issue.

ListeningButNotHearing · 23/10/2022 20:11

'Hard to see her in same way'

In the kindest way possible, you do need to wise-up.

Don't judge her for growing up and living her life how she wants and not how she said she would 10 years ago. She was hardly out of her teenage years.

lostinthejungle22 · 23/10/2022 20:12

Same thing here, always said I won't have kids, then finally decided I want one at 36. I now have an incredible baby, and I'm so in love with her and can't believe I wasted all this time. I was also a bit embarrassed to tell my friends, felt like I went back on my words and failed or something. They seem happy for me though, I think, I hope?

Happyher · 23/10/2022 20:12

Your views change as you get older. You realise that things that were so important to you once actually don’t matter that much and vice versa. Many things happen that change your opinion and priorities. You become more relaxed and potentially wiser. Your friend is just more mature now and life has shaped her

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 23/10/2022 20:13

I never wanted to get married. Had boyfriends. Found them a bit suffocating. Met my now husband at 21 and could suddenly see building a life with someone.

Still didn't want kids though. We planned for none. Fell pregnant by accident several years after the wedding. Massive shock to both of us. Neither of us could fathom terminating though, so we accepted a baby was coming. DD is the best thing that happened to us, I'm so glad she's here.

However, if things didn't work out with DH, I wouldn't just jump into dating. I'd still rather be alone than with someone just to be with someone.

Point I'm trying to make is that she may have held those views, and to some degree still hold them, but circumstances changed for her and she's realised the joys of the things she didn't originally want, but got anyway.

EIIa · 23/10/2022 20:14

She doesn’t owe you anything OP

Habreathmint · 23/10/2022 20:18

You sound a bit intense and insecure tbh

gonutkin · 23/10/2022 20:21

One of my closest friends since high school has never wanted children or marriage. She's been in a couple of very long term relationships and then got into a relationship and got pregnant and had a baby before they hit a year together. She's very happy and it never crossed my mind how she never wanted children or that I never knew her. I agree it's quite odd how your viewing the whole situation and maybe your friend has picked up on that and that's why she's avoiding certain questions

ittakes2 · 23/10/2022 20:22

Gosh you sound judgy I am sorry. People can change their minds and if doesn’t make them less of a person because of it.

EmmaH2022 · 23/10/2022 20:22

It's just struck me that some people might be disappointed I didn't change my mind.?!

ittakes2 · 23/10/2022 20:23

My sister was so adamant when she was married in her 20s she had her tubes tied. Now in her 50s mum to a lovely teen after ivf.

billy1966 · 23/10/2022 20:27

People change.
Even within a decade you can change your view.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised at that in anyone I know.

Sometimeswinning · 23/10/2022 20:28

I think you need to have a good look at your own life. At best you're judging at worst I'd be questioning your interest.

You are bu. She's not being sheepish I'm going to guess. I think it's you hearing things. Or she's really nervous speaking to you.

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 23/10/2022 20:32

Live your life and let her live hers.

kimchifix · 23/10/2022 20:39

Do you now think she was being inauthentic when she took up her stance as a fiercely independent woman? So she was duping you in some way? I don't think that's necessarily the case.

MrsDSalvatore · 23/10/2022 20:40

I was adamant I didnt want kids. Never felt maternal..i now have 3 year old twins which i had IVF to conceive..people change.
Its impossible to know how you are going to feel or what you are going to want 5 years down the line

LadybirdsAreNeverHappy · 23/10/2022 20:43

If you had met your friend later in life and found out she had stuck to her word, never married, no kids but she was unhappy, unsuccessful and lonely, would it be hard to see her in the same way then and would you say she’d fallen off her pedestal?
It sounds like you wanted your friend to be an example of that kind of life working out,
her life went a different way but lots of women are very happy being single and not having kids. My sister always said she wouldn’t marry or have kids, she never did and has no regrets.
Sometimes the people who talk a lot about this sort of thing and are very definite about it, it’s because they actually do want it but it scares them or they’re worried it won’t happen for them. It can be because of a bad childhood too sometimes.
I always swore I would never have kids but when I was in my late twenties, something just flipped in me like a switch. I got babies on the brain. One time I walked into a cafe and there was this really powerful smell, it was like warm, clean laundry mixed with something I can’t even describe. When I turned the corner, there was a new mums group with about ten newborns. It was the babies! I couldn’t stop staring at them. In my head I thought I still don’t want one, but it was like on a whole different level, I was compelled to. My dd is 3 now, I still don’t understand what came over me and the weirdest thing is, it’s now happening again 🙈

BlueMongoose · 23/10/2022 20:48

People do change. And she may have been under pressure to change. I have no kids of my own, never wanted any of my own, though I don't dislike kids, I worked with them for years, and I'm fond of my young relatives. I don't see why anyone should think more or less of me for any of that. I don't try to persuade anyone to do the same, either, I expect them to make up their own minds about what's right for them and support them in whatever that is.
It's a bit unfair to put people on a pedestal for anything, we're all human, if you do it you are likely headed for disappointment, and it puts people under pressure if they begin to feel that's what you're doing.