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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Hard to see her in same way

136 replies

Perditanoy · 23/10/2022 17:02

I have a friend I've known for about a decade. Met at uni. Lots in common.

After uni we never lived close by but caught up on text every few months and saw each other periodically. She had the same boyfriend for years but was always so adamant she'd never get married or have kids. Very career-oriented, did loads of travelling and had great hobbies.

I really came to admire her stance and honesty on the marriage and kids thing as she wasn't afraid to say it wasn't for her despite the usual societal pressures. It was refreshing. She was quite clear on all her reasons for her views and we had many conversations about it. It wasn't necessarily going to be the path I took but I loved having a proudly independent female friend who wasn't pining to get married and have babies and was going to do it her way. I really looked up to her.

Then a few years ago just before lockdown, her and her partner bought a house. For legal reasons they then decided to marry given their new situation with the property (they live abroad). It was a closed door wedding and she had no fuss or even family attend. Just one witness. Fair enough. Owning property sometimes means marriage is a better option for tax/ inheritance reasons.

I saw her around this time and she was still 100% no on kids however. Her partner didn't agree though and they'd had a lot of arguments about it.

Then last year she got pregnant and has since had a kid. I found out via social media and she never let me know directly. I called to congratulate her of course but she seemed quite sheepish about it, almost embarrassed. She mentioned relatives that had trouble getting pregnant and were desperate for kids yet she hadn't been and it all happened easily.

Since then we've had occasional contact but not as much and usually about things related to hobbies. I asked a couple of baby questions but she never answered. It's fair to say we've drifted, also due to post-lockdown and living so far away. I'm OK with this as I know friendships can change but I've been reflecting on how she did a 180 on things she seemed so against all the time I knew her. Maybe I never really knew her at all?

I know people change their minds, life moves on, situations crop up so there's no judgement of her about any of this.

But for so long I saw her as the cool independent one. I put her on a pedestal and I admired her resistance to doing what is expected of every woman in society. And she was so adamant for years that that life wasn't for her. So her change of heart did come as a real shock and I guess it was hard to see her in the same way. I honestly never thought she'd change her mind as she holds very strong opinions and convictions.

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

OP posts:
Benjispruce4 · 23/10/2022 19:11

Why does it matter? Life changes us . We change as we experience life. I think you shouldn’t judge her.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 23/10/2022 19:12

Your friend is entitled to change her mind!

Friends of the family, their DD was in a long term relationship but a demanding, long hours job (same for the partner), they initially didn't want kids as it would interfere with their lives, hard to be a parent in their industry. Then I think they thought about it and realised they could have kids, they did have input from her parents as direct childcare though, no nannies/nursery etc, at least, not for their first son. The cousin of the mum who had kids, (their mums are sisters) really wanted kids but sadly couldn't ever have any, despite fertility treatment.

ShandaLear · 23/10/2022 19:17

I did that. What you want at 23 is not necessarily the same thing you want at 33. I don’t think that’s unusual in any way. Up until 30ish I was adamant I didn’t want kids and then BOOM, good old Mother Nature took over and the biological clock started ticking. Now I have two kids. I wasn’t lying when I said I didn’t want kids. I firmly believed it at the time.

Jellybean23 · 23/10/2022 19:22

I see it as a sign of her strength that she changed her mind and did what she wanted to do, not caring what others think about it. She's only got one life like the rest of us.
If you changed your mind over something big in your life, would you do what you wanted or be afraid of what other people think and not do it?

PickAnyName · 23/10/2022 19:22

You don't put friends on a pedestal, they are equals. It sounds as though she didn't change her mind about having a child, it was something her DH wanted, and it happened easily (might not be what she wanted). She may well feel embarrassed, and she might not want to discuss baby things given that she was not keen on having children. She now has a child that her DH wanted and potentially she didn't, but there's no going back. She might need your support now more than ever.

Sparklybanana · 23/10/2022 19:27

Crikey, how on earth was she supposed to have life cracked by 20? Teenagers and young adults can be strongly opinionated but rather black at white at the same time. As life goes on, it's not always so black and white so we change. She got married because it was sensible to do so.she realised she felt something about her partner which was beyond anything she'd known before. She's confident in herself to admit that her stance changed and that's OK. She shouldn't be tied to an opinion she had decades ago and quite frankly its weird you're putting her on a pedestal for this. Put her on a pedestal for not being stubborn to an opinion she had when she was barely an adult.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 23/10/2022 19:29

Do you mind saying whether you yourself have married and had children? I am wondering whether her stance validated your position, and now you feel somewhat betrayed and are wondering whether she ever truly meant what she was saying. She probably did mean it, until she hit a certain age and life changed.

Moominfanjo · 23/10/2022 19:30

You sound abit obsessed with her. Let her live her life, it's none of your business if she has a kid and gets married.

Cameleongirl · 23/10/2022 19:32

Jellybean23 · 23/10/2022 19:22

I see it as a sign of her strength that she changed her mind and did what she wanted to do, not caring what others think about it. She's only got one life like the rest of us.
If you changed your mind over something big in your life, would you do what you wanted or be afraid of what other people think and not do it?

Exactly, @Jellybean23

Herejustforthisone · 23/10/2022 19:32

takealettermsjones · 23/10/2022 17:08

Your attitude to her is a bit weird to be perfectly honest. She changed her mind. There's nothing else to it than that.

I agree. Your reaction is so weird.

I did not want kids. Christ, no. Vile little things. Then I found out I was pregnant. Not planned. My mindset didn’t change. I still didn’t like kids. But I went ahead. I like my kid. My viewpoint still stands about all others. 🤷‍♀️

Lalliella · 23/10/2022 19:32

You are way too invested in her life choices OP! You come across as really judgemental. Please reflect on why she found it so difficult to tell you - she must have been worried about being judged by you and she was right. People can change their minds you know. She doesn’t owe anything to you to live her life in a certain way.

Darbs76 · 23/10/2022 19:34

Many women say they don’t want kids, then meet the man of their dreams and change their mind. It’s perfectly normal. She’s probably feeling a bit embarrassed about it, but I don’t see what she’s done wrong. I certainly wouldn’t let it affect my friendship but clearly it has for you both.

Moveoverdarlin · 23/10/2022 19:34

I know several similar women like this and ALL have changed their mind as they hit early / mid thirties. I just think this is Mother Nature and a woman’s biological clock ticking. I think it’s rare for a woman to be adamant about not wanting children and sticking to it. When I think back on school, college and uni friends, I can’t recall one that hasn’t gone in to have children.

EmmaH2022 · 23/10/2022 19:34

I'm single and childfree by choice. I'm 46. I had a few similar shocks in my 30s.
i didn't put anyone on a pedestal but it got harder as the people with whom I had that bond fell away.

doesn't have to be the end of the friendship though.

Cavviesarethebest · 23/10/2022 19:35

Ugh.

deciding to have a child doesn’t mean that a woman has given up

i say that as someone who knows s childeless

womens lives are more complex than applying a simple male template to them

LittlePinkBalloon · 23/10/2022 19:37

I agree that you sound odd. Who cares what your friend does?

EmmaH2022 · 23/10/2022 19:38

PickAnyName · 23/10/2022 19:22

You don't put friends on a pedestal, they are equals. It sounds as though she didn't change her mind about having a child, it was something her DH wanted, and it happened easily (might not be what she wanted). She may well feel embarrassed, and she might not want to discuss baby things given that she was not keen on having children. She now has a child that her DH wanted and potentially she didn't, but there's no going back. She might need your support now more than ever.

The support one is tough though
Especially if they are drinking heavily to cope with having a kid and "support" means listening to them talk about regret, while being unable to scream WHAT DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN.

it is much easier if they are happy with their choice.

I understand why OP doesn't want to state her position.

pantsville · 23/10/2022 19:38

I think you should respect her life choices and then turn to examine why exactly it’s bothered you so much.

Cameleongirl · 23/10/2022 19:39

EmmaH2022 · 23/10/2022 19:34

I'm single and childfree by choice. I'm 46. I had a few similar shocks in my 30s.
i didn't put anyone on a pedestal but it got harder as the people with whom I had that bond fell away.

doesn't have to be the end of the friendship though.

I’m sure you didn’t judge your friends for changing their minds though, did you, @EmmaH2022 ? Having the freedom to choose our paths in life-and being able to change our minds if we wish- is what’s really important.

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/10/2022 19:40

Perditanoy · 23/10/2022 17:02

I have a friend I've known for about a decade. Met at uni. Lots in common.

After uni we never lived close by but caught up on text every few months and saw each other periodically. She had the same boyfriend for years but was always so adamant she'd never get married or have kids. Very career-oriented, did loads of travelling and had great hobbies.

I really came to admire her stance and honesty on the marriage and kids thing as she wasn't afraid to say it wasn't for her despite the usual societal pressures. It was refreshing. She was quite clear on all her reasons for her views and we had many conversations about it. It wasn't necessarily going to be the path I took but I loved having a proudly independent female friend who wasn't pining to get married and have babies and was going to do it her way. I really looked up to her.

Then a few years ago just before lockdown, her and her partner bought a house. For legal reasons they then decided to marry given their new situation with the property (they live abroad). It was a closed door wedding and she had no fuss or even family attend. Just one witness. Fair enough. Owning property sometimes means marriage is a better option for tax/ inheritance reasons.

I saw her around this time and she was still 100% no on kids however. Her partner didn't agree though and they'd had a lot of arguments about it.

Then last year she got pregnant and has since had a kid. I found out via social media and she never let me know directly. I called to congratulate her of course but she seemed quite sheepish about it, almost embarrassed. She mentioned relatives that had trouble getting pregnant and were desperate for kids yet she hadn't been and it all happened easily.

Since then we've had occasional contact but not as much and usually about things related to hobbies. I asked a couple of baby questions but she never answered. It's fair to say we've drifted, also due to post-lockdown and living so far away. I'm OK with this as I know friendships can change but I've been reflecting on how she did a 180 on things she seemed so against all the time I knew her. Maybe I never really knew her at all?

I know people change their minds, life moves on, situations crop up so there's no judgement of her about any of this.

But for so long I saw her as the cool independent one. I put her on a pedestal and I admired her resistance to doing what is expected of every woman in society. And she was so adamant for years that that life wasn't for her. So her change of heart did come as a real shock and I guess it was hard to see her in the same way. I honestly never thought she'd change her mind as she holds very strong opinions and convictions.

Aibu to have been so shocked that she changed her mind and did what everyone else does or should I never have believed her in the first place and put her on such a pedestal?

I've also known people who have said they didn't want children and then later had a family. With at least two of the couples (the others I don't know about) it was because they were having difficulty conceiving, and were sick of the pitying glances they got every time someone else announced they were pregnant, or brought their baby in to work to show it off.

BiscuitLover3678 · 23/10/2022 19:42

It sounds like she’s sheepish she changed her mind. Hormones is a big reason and just knowing you don’t have the choice. Do you think she’s worried you think differently about she now?

Limpshade · 23/10/2022 19:43

I can see from your OP why she didn't tell you in person about the baby. She feared your judgement and she was right to Sad

EmmaH2022 · 23/10/2022 19:44

Cameleongirl · 23/10/2022 19:39

I’m sure you didn’t judge your friends for changing their minds though, did you, @EmmaH2022 ? Having the freedom to choose our paths in life-and being able to change our minds if we wish- is what’s really important.

Show quote history

No I didn't judge them.

i am god parent - not guardian - in one case and having a child was a great thing for him and his wife.

I don't think OP is judging either. It's just a bit hard if you feel that someone was maybe talking nonsense all along. But maybe I'm projecting on to OP.

BiscuitLover3678 · 23/10/2022 19:44

Also I can tell you now there is a strong chance she is struggling with all this. Having a baby is horribly hard and if she wasn’t even sure she wanted one then this is a really big thing. The fact she kept is so quiet too.

FaceLikeASmackedArse · 23/10/2022 19:48

She's probably been sheepish, avoided baby questions and didn't tell you about the pregnancy because she knew you'd put her on your imaginary pedestal and had a strange obsession with her leading a life you admired but didn't want to follow yourself.

If you admire independent unmarried childless women who don't conform to the norm so deeply, why didn't you just do that for yourself? Who are you to feel YOU have been let down because someone else's life went in different direction??

Being married and having children doesn't stop a woman from being a strong role model anyway!

You sound like you've been an exhausting friend whereby your idol has felt the strain of having to live up to your expectations, so now she quickly changes the subject incase you start with "I thought you said you'd never get married... you said you'd never have kids either....I really looked up to you, why did you do the things you said you never would?!".

She was at uni with lots of ideas, thoughts and fantasies, but then she grew up and lived in the real world where things changed.

Get over it. And get over yourself.