To think that christmas is farce ?

[portocristo]

Christmas seems to be a alcohol and food fest plus lots and lots of gifts and elf on the shelf etc. Just wondering if kids nowadays know or care that it's a religious occasion . I'm pretty sure that if you asked most kids about Christmas they would say its all about presents and chocolate. Am I being unreasonable in thinking this ?

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. If you live in a country with a Christian culture, then this stuff is part of your culture whether you believe in god or not. Besides, some of the elements of how we celebrate Christmas existed in the Yule festival before it was called Christmas. It's been perfectly normal throughout human history for some bits of religious ritual and tradition to persist long after most people have stopped believing in the deity/deities. I love Christmas and I'm a staunch atheist. I expect if I went to live in a country with a different religion, I'd enjoy the traditions and festivals associated with it as well.

Not in our house it’s not. We’re Christian - and it’s our second most important festival after Easter.

My three year old DS knows exactly what it’s about.

To pagans?

Because it just IS a religious holiday centred around the birth of Christ.

You can steal it back if you like! I’ve love two weeks off work for a fully pagan celebration but I don’t think that’s going to happen is it? You can’t undo a thousand years of cultural erosion so stop being bitter about it and chill out with a Baileys.

I love the time off -
The traditions
socialising with mates and family
I am not religious that means nothing at all to me

In our house it is a lovely time. We all have time off school and work and we get to enjoy traditions we have established as a family. No, it has absolutely nothing to do with religion for us but so what? Take from this holiday what you want and what makes your family happy.

@UWhatNow

Except it obviously isnt just a religious festival around the birth of Christ

If Christians want to be possessive about the religious festival, thats fine. No one else celebrates that bit anyway

The other bits aren't theirs to be possessive over

Well, I'm not a Muslim so I don't celebrate Eid.

I suppose the pagans on here will claim Eid as a pagan festival too? I hope you celebrate it 😅

December 25 is the day Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

To reiterate - Christmas isn’t a pagan holiday, but there are elements of the holiday that can be linked to paganism.

Clue is in the name - CHRISTmas.

@Marmunia1066

Yes.

And non Christians don't celebrate christmas

They celebrate the multi cultural and secular celebrations that occur at the same time as the Christian one.

Because Christians chose to align theirs with the existing festivals

If they had wanted a celebration only they could celebrate, they should have picked a different time

@Topgub They celebrate the multi cultural and secular celebrations that occur at the same time as the Christian one.

Which are those?
Just curious.

We're a bunch of godless sinners and we think Christmas is the best time of the year.

Farce it up baby.

@Myunclesmustache

The pagan festivals that pre date Christianity.

Decorating houses and trees (a victorian invention I believe?)

Present giving /father Christmas (linked to older traditions that predate Christianity)

Feasting

Carol singing (again victorian I think)

Its hard to separate it out completely. Lots of cultural influences are interlinked.

Most religious stories plagiarise each other. The Virgin birth myth. 3 wise men etc all exist in other religions which pre date Christianity.

Fascinating stuff

But really daft to be possessive about it.

These have been mentioned a number of times up thread. Yule, Saturnalia, Winter Solstice. See this History Channel link for a few more.

It's not even named after Christ in my language so I am allowed to celebrate it 😁

@Allergictoironing These have been mentioned a number of times up thread. Yule, Saturnalia, Winter Solstice

That's interesting but I don't know anyone who celebrates any of those except a girl I knew from Shetland, where they had the Festival of Up Helly Aa. Her family celebrated Christmas as well.

@Topgub
Decorating houses and trees (a victorian invention I believe?)

Carol singing (again victorian I think)

Really.? I know Queen Victoria had a long reign but even she doesn't predate Christianity

Bringing in greenery predates Christianity, of course. Certain plants always had a meaning and significance so people brought them in at certain times. Holy, and what's that name the one you kiss under, were always significant

To ancient people who lived by the sun and stars, the 25th of December is the first day they could tell that the darkest time had passed. DH, a Catholic who suffers with SAD, has a double celebration. I'm an Atheist, the neighbours are Muslim who celebrate the prophet Jesus, we all exchange cards and presents. Goodwill abounds.

Trees are Victorian, but Yule logs go way back

But it's been very secular for years.

There are still lots of religious aspects to it for those who want to celebrate it as a Christian feast - advent preparations, carol services, Christmas Day services, the 12 Days celebrations...

There were always gifts - the 3 wise men arrived with gifts on 12th night (in the middle of march), as well as the shepherds on the night.

Candles and fire have always played a big part in it.

Even in our multidenopminational school (where the DCs learned about festivals for many faiths, but actively celebrate none - so it is a Wintersong gathering in the schoolyard on breakup day), they learned all about Christmas and the nativity story. As well as about the presents that happen in Hannukk'ah (sp?). And the importance of family to many faiths.

But there have been more non-religious aspects for many years as well. Cards go back more than 100 years, and presents go back a lot longer than that. Gathering for a big feast in the depths of winter was something that even pre-dated the Christian festival, as the solstice is just a few days before Christmas which was formerly the focus.

And there are a lot of different ways to celebrate Christmas. Some are more religious than others, but even among those who do recognise the nativity and its importance, there are different levels of celebration. For example, it is very important to Jehovah's Witnesses, but they have no presents at all. Whereas Catholics, Protestants, Methodists etc all exchange presents - but there may be a greater focus on useful items and hand/homemade items in the Protestant/Methodist communities than the Catholic communities based on their fundamental ethos.

None of the ways people celebrate are wrong. They have different priorities in their lives. They have different family or local traditions. They have different budgets to live within.

I believe decorated trees are German thing. They are Christian though iirc so fair enough on that one

I enjoy Christmas but I’m not a Christian, it’s the time off with family, nice food, presents etc I love.
I enjoy Easter but I don’t worship the goddess Oestre, I like Halloween but I’m not a witch, I have been know to enjoy Eid and Diwali too.
These are all just festivals to me, religion doesn’t feature

Was a bit hard in England to celebrate these for hundreds of years bearing in mind being anything apart from the state sanctioned religion of the time was illegal. In Tudor times, being Catholic or Protestant under the opposing thinking monarch (e.g. Mary who was Catholic, or Edward VI who was Protestant) could also lead to persecution or even execution.

There are many examples in history regarding the way various flavours of Christianity would kill anyone who was a different religion or even slightly differing beliefs. Would YOU publicly celebrate an illegal festival?

Easter is not mentioned in the Bible the only time it is used in some translations is a mis translation of the word Passover, the word Easter was hijacked from pagan origins but the story of Christ's death ( whether you believe or not) is tied in with the feast of the passover the date of which is known as being the first Sunday after the first new moon after spring equinox.
No-one knows what day Jesus was born it could have been any day of the year but it was one day, so the fact that some group of early Christians decided to celebrate it at the same time as the mid winter festival ( probably because they had some days off work) is OK. There is probably not a day they could have chosen that wasn't also the day of some other god / deity/ festival
People say it can't have been december as shepherds would not have been outside well sheep survive on the hills in Scotland in mid winter, so i am sure they would have survived in Israel in middle of winter which is much warmer than the highlands though it does occasionaly snow in Jerusalem
The fact that it is probably not the right day doesn't matter
but anyone can celebrate how they want regardless of beliefs it is not hypocritical to wish someone Happy Diwali if you are not Hindu, neither is saying happy Christmas hypocritical if you are not a Christian