To think that christmas is farce ?

[portocristo]

Christmas seems to be a alcohol and food fest plus lots and lots of gifts and elf on the shelf etc. Just wondering if kids nowadays know or care that it's a religious occasion . I'm pretty sure that if you asked most kids about Christmas they would say its all about presents and chocolate. Am I being unreasonable in thinking this ?

I'm not religious at all, but I love midnight mass and a nativity scene. Doesn't feel like Christmas without it. I do come from a big Catholic family though, as does DH.

It's all out of hand with the present buying now.

Kids want.more and more and it dosent make them happy. They still get bored and the stuff gets broken. Parents are under pressure to Provide. People will go into debt.

Why do you need loads of presents cos it's Christmas?

You have your own birthday to celebrate.

Lots of presents aren't even wanted they end up being re gifted, moaned about or sold on ebay.

Christmas is not a happy time for everyone either. Alot of people don't have family or friends and it makes them sad. They have also lost loved ones at this time of year.

The pressure for one day of the year is immense.
Plus it's all starts to early. Do you really need cards in the shops in August?

Whose going to afford to put lights on their trees this year too with the cost?

@DrDetriment you can be by yourself if you are ok with it. It can be really relaxing. I had one Christmas by myself after I emigrated. Housemates and I talked about arrangements so no one stays alone. The one who kept saying she is staying as well fucked off after tickets for me because unaffordable, zhe simply changed her mind, fine.
I skyped with family, cooked nice meal, had a super long bath because house was empty, had a face mask, watched stupid movies and gave myself a present😁

Highlight was whole vienetta just for me

This post makes no sense. Do you mean that the Christians took over
a previous festival? In which case , it couldn’t have been called Christmas, because, well the clue is in the name.

Who nicked someone ? With what, a knife, or just a finger nail? Perhaps the Sky Pixie could enlighten us.

Do you mean that the Christians took overa previous festival? In which case , it couldn’t have been called Christmas, because, well the clue is in the name.

Once you take it over, you can call it anything you like.

Oh God, not this old trope again. First heard this about 30 years ago and yet here we are, Christmas still being celebrated by Christians and being marked by non-Christians as an end of year festival. Does it matter?

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen Christians took over a pagan festival that occurred at broadly the same time and rebranded it. That's how they worked. They also built many churches on sites previously sacred to pagan religions. It's just smart marketing: Look, here's this fabulous new god, and he's just as sacred as your old one because we've based him at your shrine and nothing has happened, so clearly your old god(s) are ok with it.

Not religious in the slightest.

Love Christmas as it's good fun, nice food, socialising. What's not to love?

Do you mean that the Christians took overa previous festival? In which case , it couldn’t have been called Christmas, because, well the clue is in the name.

You mean the previous called festivals, Yule , saturnalia, winterval, winter solstice.

Can't wait till you discover Easter which name isn't a clue its name of a pagan goddess

@dottypotter most people don't go into debt due to buying presents. Most people don't buy their children things that don't make them happy. If a person is doing that then more fool them.
Also if you think Christmas is "just one day" you are doing it 'wrong'. It's a season with lots of different parts and celebrations.

Very much depends, for some people it’s still religious. We go to Mass almost every year still (both bf and I are Catholic but we also live together so 🤷🏻‍♀️)

I had a lot of religious education from an early age, family, Catholic nursery with nuns. DP had state schools with no religious teaching so is more rusty than me on certain dogma, but is Polish so I think the Christmas experience is more religiously infused

My brothers also haven’t been to religious schools and are much younger so observance has waned — one of them called the manger in our house “the Jesus petting zoo”

I fail to see what is wrong with an alcohol and food festival!

Humans have celebrated the midwinter solstice, the coming of spring, and light, shorter days with feasts, celebrations and merry-making for millennia across the continents especially in the Northern Hemisphere where our lack of sunlight makes winters long and dark. The sun was worshipped for it's bringing of light, therefore life long before the apparent birth of Christ.

I've copied and pasted this from a BBC article;
Ancient people were hunters and spent most of their time outdoors. The seasons and weather played a very important part in their lives. Because of this many ancient people had a great reverence for, and even worshipped the sun. The Norsemen of Northern Europe saw the sun as a wheel that changed the seasons. It was from the word for this wheel, houl, that the word yule is thought to have come. At mid-winter the Norsemen lit bonfires, told stories and drank sweet ale.
The ancient Romans also held a festival to celebrate the rebirth of the year. Saturnalia ran for seven days from the 17th of December. It was a time when the ordinary rules were turned upside down. Men dressed as women and masters dressed as servants. The festival also involved decorating houses with greenery, lighting candles, holding processions and giving presents.
The Winter Solstice falls on the shortest day of the year (21st December) and was celebrated in Britain long before the arrival of Christianity. The Druids (Celtic priests) would cut the mistletoe that grew on the oak tree and give it as a blessing. Oaks were seen as sacred and the winter fruit of the mistletoe was a symbol of life in the dark winter months.
It was also the Druids who began the tradition of the yule log. The Celts thought that the sun stood still for twelve days in the middle of winter and during this time a log was lit to conquer the darkness, banish evil spirits and bring luck for the coming year.
Many of these customs are still followed today. They have been incorporated into the Christian and secular celebrations of Christmas.

In our house, we are most certainly atheists but I incorporate a lot of Yule traditions (especially the greenery which I enjoy foraging for, candles and definitely the feasting!) There's a reason the post-Christmas months are so much more depressing. As soon as everyone takes their lights down, the world is darker and bleaker until spring hits, and nature fills the world with colour and light. I tend to just let people celebrate how they see fit. They're not in my house, and nor I in theirs.

Amen.

And it is actually really not just one day. It's 3 kind of even in UK.
Christmas eve (for some countries that's the Christmas day), 25th and 26th.
Ples advent and the overall season as pp says

I think it's a farce if it's forced jollity between family members because 'it has to be done'

It's not booze fest for us, it's quiet, time spent together, nice walks lots of fairy lights and that's about it!

Myself and my family children included are Christian -well we was baptised anyway we don’t regularly go to church but we all understand the religious meaning of -we are aware Jesus was not born on 25 dec Do you celebrate religiously and we all do the Christmas tree and present thing have a big dinner on the day and use it as a day to spend time with family really

Because it’s a massive cultural event in a once-Christian nation. I’ve lived in England all my life, learned the Christmas story from books, films and TV, acted in the nativity at school, heard Christmas songs on the radio, got given days off at Christmas, exchanged cards and gifts.

As everyone has said, Christmas hijacked the Pagan Yule. It’s really a celebration of light and plenty - a shout out to the darkest day of the year and an acknowledgment that the days are getting longer again, and spring and summer will return.

One of my favourite Christmas songs is Tracey Thorn’s Joy, which gives great expression to the joys of a secular Christmas.

Joy

When someone very dear
Calls you with the words
Everything's all clear
That's what you want to hear

But you know it might be
Different in the new year
That's why, that's why
We hang the lights so high

Joy, joy, joy, joy
You loved it as a kid
And now you need it
More than you ever did

It's because of the dark
We see the beauty in the spark
That's why, that's why
The carols make you cry

Joy, joy, joy, joy
Joy, joy, joy, joy

Dance around the tree, yes I see
The holly on the door, like before
The candles in gloom, light the room
The Sally Army band, yes, I understand

So light the winter fire
And watch as the flames grow higher
We'll gather up our fears
And face down all the coming years

All that they destroy
And in their face we throw our

Joy, joy, joy, joy
Joy, joy, joy, joy

It's why we hang the lights so high
And gaze at the glow
Of silver birches in the snow
Because of the dark
We see the beauty in the spark
We must be all right
If we could make up Christmas night

Oh it always annoys me people saying Christmas is basically a pagan festival, as though this is some kind of argument against it. Christmas (the name is the clue ) is originally a Christian festival (though lots of people now celebrate it as a midwinter festival) which was probably but not certainly timed to coincide with existing midwinter festivals of light (there's some evidence that Jesus was born in December which may be why the tradition started). Many people still celebrate the religious aspects, and it means as lot to them. So thanks, but we're not hypocritical. In our family we love going to church, Christmas carols, nativity plays and so on, we also love Santa (st Nicholas) and all the additional trees sparkles baubles and less obviously religious stuff that's accumulated round it in these cold countries. And why not have both? You're not less Christian for liking a bit of sparkle. People celebrating 'pagan' Christmases are also not generally following their long held family tradition from saturnalia, they're just picking up on the millennial old Christian festival but leaving out the religious bits.

Oh it always annoys me people saying Christmas is basically a pagan festival, as though this is some kind of argument against it. Christmas (the name is the clue ) is originally a Christian festival (though lots of people now celebrate it as a midwinter festival)

Because it is a pagan festival have you just ignored all posts on this threads.

Are you pretending it didn't exist before, this is a bizzare post claiming it all for Christians

That's one of my favourite Christmas songs too, @MasterBeth. Makes me a bit teary.

People celebrating 'pagan' Christmases are also not generally following their long held family tradition from saturnalia

And neither are Christian's celebrating something uniquely religious. Quite why you think you've the moral high ground over anyone else is baffling.

I'm usually on my own until late evening and I find Baileys helps.

Oh it always annoys me people saying Christmas is basically a pagan festival, as though this is some kind of argument against it.

Arguing against what?

People are pointing out that it was created to coincide with with existing pagan festivals to answer those who complain that we no longer do Christmas the "right" way, whatever they deem that to be. Could be the religious element, could be the consumerist one, whatever. The point is that even our traditional Western Christmas was a change from what was once established, indeed was designed to overtake the older traditions. So it doesn't make much sense to complain that people are doing it wrong when it's a takeover of an original anyway.

We have been celebrating around the winter solstice long before Christianity. Traditions change over time.

I don't think there's anything wrong with celebrating Christmas when you're not religious. We do and it's all about tradition, seeing the dc's faces light up at the magic of believing in Santa, having fun and indulging in nice food etc. Why would you care how others choose to celebrate?