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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that christmas is farce ?

247 replies

portocristo · 23/10/2022 11:31

Christmas seems to be a alcohol and food fest plus lots and lots of gifts and elf on the shelf etc. Just wondering if kids nowadays know or care that it's a religious occasion . I'm pretty sure that if you asked most kids about Christmas they would say its all about presents and chocolate. Am I being unreasonable in thinking this ?

OP posts:
AutieAdult · 23/10/2022 13:24

For me Christmas is a religious festival as I’m a practicing Catholic. However I recognise that the mid winter was celebrated well before Christianity and the Christians imposed sometimes violently.

I don’t mind people saying they don’t believe or it’s rubbish - I feel offended sometimes by some of the humour around Jesus birth/Mary but also believe in free speech the right to offend and off button.

I don’t mind secular celebration and feasting and we spend Christmas night with a family that are not religious at all.
I’m sad at some of the waste and people who feel pressure (often internally rather than by the children) into debt to buy presents. Also for people who feel alone.

WildHorsesRunInMe · 23/10/2022 13:25

jeffbezoz · 23/10/2022 12:35

It's quite nice to have a celebration to mark out the year, get the family together etc etc.

I agree and enjoy Christmas for this reason. Not in the slightest religious and couldn't care less if you think it's hypocritical.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 23/10/2022 13:30

I think for many people it's a time we spend with those we love. That to me is worth celebrating and making a fuss of even if you aren't religious. This year more than ever. And if you aren't the spiritual origins aren't important anyway. I respect the beliefs of those who do celebrate for religious reasons and hope the consideration would be mutual

AloysiusBear · 23/10/2022 13:30

Modern Christmas isn't solely a religious occasion.

The modern festival includes elements from lots of pagan/ancient traditions, midwinter festivals, and cultural winter themes.

My family aren't Christian. We celebrate Christmas mainly via the traditional Yule elements of northern europe - christmas tree, feasting & food, father christmas/old man winter, music, midwinter gift giving.

Please don't take our secular traditions and subsume them into the Christian christmas story.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 23/10/2022 13:31

Notimeforaname · 23/10/2022 11:36

Not everyone is religious but everyone loves a celebration.

Adults and children need something to look forward to, to break up the year. People get together, it can be a lovely time for many, no matter how its celebrated.

Agree

PorkPieAndAPickledOnion · 23/10/2022 13:31

PinkHeadphones · 23/10/2022 12:03

I like a lot of the answers on this thread. I am not Christian but I enjoy the midwinter festival aspect of Christmas - bringing light, life, love, feasting and celebration into the darkest time of the year - and also the more mystical aspect @TheKeatingFive talks about. It's about magic and the stories we tell ourselves, whether that is Santa or the Nativity.

Hear hear! I don’t have a religious bone in my body, but I adore everything about Christmas, and believe in its magic.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 23/10/2022 13:31

portocristo · 23/10/2022 11:37

Yes I enjoy it too just think its a bit hypocritical.

Hmmmm. I can think of many discussions regarding hypocrisy and the church but hey ho Grin

Myunclesmustache · 23/10/2022 13:31

Oh here we go again, another "let's bash a Christian Festival" thread.

Yawn 😴

Medoca · 23/10/2022 13:32

Booze and food fest sounds amazing! We don’t celebrate the religious aspect. It’s an great excuse to see friends and family and have a great time.

Dreamwhisper · 23/10/2022 13:33

It's not a farce for people to celebrate for different reasons, that are different to your personal reasons. How self centred!

Mid winter celebrations have always happened. I'm not Christian but I care about history and tradition and I love Christmas. I truly do not care if other people have a problem with that. I don't mind my DC learning about Christmas in school.

Dinodigger · 23/10/2022 13:34

We are atheists so we don't care about the religious side of it. We just like the capitalist side of it tbh. Also, most of Christmas is just stole from pagans anyway.

Dreamwhisper · 23/10/2022 13:35

In fact, Christmas and Easter mean a lot to me because I think of all the people who have celebrated for centuries, and what it meant for them. Winter and the New Year for me is a time of contemplation and thinking about life and death and the spirit.

I don't need to be specifically Christian or a defined religion to appreciate that. It's arrogant to assume that because you're Christian that everyone else is just gorging and overindulging and overconsuming for no reason.

AloysiusBear · 23/10/2022 13:41

A christian friend of mine bemoaned the local school children singing fewer strongly biblically influenced carols these days.

I pointed out that the tradition of wassail is not religious, and midwinter traditional songs are just as culturally important as Christian ones, if not more. I'm from the south west, and so help me, no Christian is gonna tell me not to sing to my apple trees in January Grin

Mrsmch123 · 23/10/2022 13:46

It is about food and gifts in our house. I care not a jot about the religious side of it as I don't believe in any of it. I do the "magic" of Christmas with Santa. it's a nice time to spend with my little family, eat lots and open presents🤷🏻‍♀️What's not to love

PinkHeadphones · 23/10/2022 13:58

This bit from the Children of Green Knowe sums up the mystical and magical element of Christmas for me - it's about time, and love, and our humanity and our distant history and stories and sadness and joy and children, and I don't think you have to be Christian to access it even though the Nativity is a strong thread within it.

“As they rested there, tired and dreamy and content, he thought he heard the rocking-horse gently moving, but the sound came from Mrs. Oldknow’s room, which opened out of the music room. A woman’s voice began to sing very softly a cradle song that Tolly had learnt and dearly loved:
Lully Lullay, Thou little tiny child
By by, Lully, Lullay.
O sisters, too, how may we do,
For to preserve this day
This poor youngling
For whom we sing
By by, Lully, Lullay.
‘Who is it?’ he whispered.
‘It’s the grandmother rocking the cradle,’ said Mrs. Oldknow, and her eyes were full of tears.
‘Why are you crying, Granny? It’s lovely.’
‘It is lovely, only it is such a long time ago. I don’t know why that should be sad, but it sometimes seems so.’
The singing began again.
‘Granny,’ whispered Tolly again with his arm through hers, ‘whose cradle is it? Linnet is as big as I am.’
‘My darling, this voice is much older than that. I hardly know whose it is. I heard it once before at Christmas.’
It was queer to hear the baby’s sleepy whimper only in the next room, now, and so long ago.

MrsRinaDecker · 23/10/2022 14:01

I’m a Christian, so I do practise the religious part, but we also have food, alcohol, gifts, and celebrating with friends and family. I don’t feel that my non Christian friends are in any way hypocritical for joining in the celebrations.
The only part I don’t agree with is getting in debt to pay for it.

Mamma80 · 23/10/2022 14:02

It is based in religion and I teach my child that, but thats my choice, what gives everyone else joy and feel good is up to them, as is the people that dont like Christmas. Each to their own. YABU to only value your view of it

Cantthinkofanewnameatm · 23/10/2022 14:02

There’s people being bombed in Ukraine.
women being oppressed and tortured in Iran.
Muslim minority being eradicated in China
Barely anyone can afford to run their heating, many cannot feed themselves and their families well.
So if there’s a glimmer of happiness, one day to forget the grinding misery that is the 21st century, in the middle of winter, I don’t really care if it’s religious, pagan, tree hugging or cat worshipping. It might just make the world look better for a day.

Peachypips78 · 23/10/2022 14:09

Just want to point out that the 'Christians hijacked a pagan festival' is a myth.

veritasetcaritas.medium.com/was-christmas-a-christian-hijack-of-a-pagan-date-a4e7a094ce35

blusteryshowersaway · 23/10/2022 14:10

Cantthinkofanewnameatm · 23/10/2022 14:02

There’s people being bombed in Ukraine.
women being oppressed and tortured in Iran.
Muslim minority being eradicated in China
Barely anyone can afford to run their heating, many cannot feed themselves and their families well.
So if there’s a glimmer of happiness, one day to forget the grinding misery that is the 21st century, in the middle of winter, I don’t really care if it’s religious, pagan, tree hugging or cat worshipping. It might just make the world look better for a day.

❤️

bloodyeverlastinghell · 23/10/2022 14:29

Peachypips78 · 23/10/2022 14:09

Just want to point out that the 'Christians hijacked a pagan festival' is a myth.

veritasetcaritas.medium.com/was-christmas-a-christian-hijack-of-a-pagan-date-a4e7a094ce35

I think that article contradicts itself. So the early Christians wanted the holiday to coincide with the existing celebration of the birth of the Sun god. I would argue that the equivalent polytheism would be considered pagan in the UK.

The whole calendar thing Is a bit iffy anyway they had to redo it in 1752 having miscalculated the length of a year originally. So December 25th wouldn’t of been what we’d consider December 25th for centuries.

Allergictoironing · 23/10/2022 15:00

Peachypips78 · 23/10/2022 14:09

Just want to point out that the 'Christians hijacked a pagan festival' is a myth.

veritasetcaritas.medium.com/was-christmas-a-christian-hijack-of-a-pagan-date-a4e7a094ce35

Very unbiased source that - a site branding itself as "Christian Anarchism"!

So you are arguing that a mid-winter festival has Christian origins here? Lets take just one Pagan mid winter festival then - Saturnalia. There are records regarding this particular festival from over 400 years before the birth of Christ. This involved feasting, gift giving, and lighting candles.

Yule was also celebrated by the Norse peoples long before they became Christianised, and there are records of mid winter celebrations. Stonehenge was built to mark the winter solstice - around 3000 years before the birth of Christ.

As others have said, "evidence" from the Bible makes it clear that Christ must have been born in the middle of the year, not mid winter

Dreamwhisper · 23/10/2022 15:05

it's about time, and love, and our humanity and our distant history and stories and sadness and joy and children, and I don't think you have to be Christian to access it even though the Nativity is a strong thread within it

This made me cry and is exactly what I was trying to articulate. I feel an ancestral connection when I think of all the people who came before us, and looked at the same stars and held the same thoughts about life and chose to celebrate these moments.

To celebrate life is surely the very essence of humanity. No single religion can claim it.

Dreamwhisper · 23/10/2022 15:05

that was supposed to say "To celebrate life and mourn death"