To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

So ignore the complaining member so the public or, at most, have some absolutely straightforward, sensible rules around, say, basic decency, that are kept to the absolute minimum. Do missing ties ever matter? Think about it, the tie is a pretty stupid garment anyway and the majority of pupils will practically never wear one again as adults. What is so dreadful about hoodies and trainers?

As for those skirts: the secondary school local to us likes to proclaim how strict it is about uniform and yes, the uniform is stupidly expensive because unfortunate parents have to buy everything with a pointless logo on it. But it cheers me up when I drive past at times when the kids are going in or coming home to see that, to a woman, every single girl wearing a skirt has the length at several inches above the knee. Obviously the school has totally given up on that fight. God bless the British teenage girl, I say, more power to her elbow.

Hear, hear! If only more people were taught critical thinking as a basic element of secondary and even primary education, I strongly suspect we wouldn't as a country be in the total political mess that we are suffering currently.

I personally think that strict uniform rules are a good thing ! It’s about presentation and discipline.
My children went to exceptional secondary schools and appearance was very important. I agreed with all the requirements from their school.
My youngest child is starting an amazing post grad job next week and he has spent weeks working out what he thinks is the right dress code ! It does pay off long term.

The post being responded to said that it made life difficult if 1000 plus pupils were taking their blazers off. I was imply asking her why it makes life difficult. The post in question wasn't saying it was a problem because it was a rule that the teacher had to enforce against their will, it was saying it was a problem in and of itself. And I think a lot of people would like to understand why, given that so many academy heads clearly think it is.

Why hasn’t your child just asked what the dress code is rather than spend weeks guessing?

No, it doesn't pay off. Your youngest didn't get that job because he wasted weeks working out a dress code but because someone thought he was capable of doing the job, which had everything to do with his qualifications, experience and references and practically nothing to do with what he was wearing. I strongly suspect that when he starts the job he will discover that people wear all sorts. Schools have this exceptionally weird idea of the reality of workwear which has become even more outdated since lockdown.

To be honest, if my child emerged from education needing to spend weeks working out what to wear, I would feel that his time school and university had been seriously wasted.

Did you know that St Paul's Girls' School, which regularly tops the exam results league tables, has no uniform at all?

On the subject of uniforms I do have a pressing question - do women in the UK have terrible trouble with their feet? Is it a podiatrist’s paradise? I’m from Australia, we were recently visiting the UK and DD and I couldn’t get over the ridiculous shoes that all the girls were wearing - little ballet flats and slip ons! In Australia it is all about the sturdy lace up for both girls and boys and at some schools you can get away with trainers if they are all leather (not at my kids’ schools). They aren’t the most attractive things but at least they have proper arch support. I find it so strange that all the kids have to wear blazers and ties but not proper shoes?

Sorry I personally disagree . I never said he got the job because of his appearance! That is your interpretation of my post ! He does take an interest in his appearance because weirdly if he starts his job wearing jeans and t shirt he will feel uncomfortable and underdressed!
Why has my post annoyed you?
It’s common sense to dress well if you are in a well paid job with the potential to earn decent money .

Agree. Australian too and everyone wears proper lace-up leather school shoes or black leather trainers.
And why on earth do you have to ask to take your blazer off? I've been thinking and can't come up with one good reason. I do know that some private schools here insist on the hat and blazer when out of the school ( even that is stupid) but inside the school ? What on earth does that accomplish? So strange.

This is why I love Scotland. This absolute bollocks would never fly amongst normal folk. Mine came home becyyge October Holidays in a reebok geansaidh, a pair of puma trainers and black jeans. Similar items in the rest of his peers.,

But your son will discover that that isn't necessarily the case when he starts work, because the world of work has changed a lot, especially post covid. People are much more interested in how you do the job than how you are dressed, and most tend to accept that dressing for comfort and efficiency is what is important. I fear he may discover that all those weeks he spent working out what to wear will have been wasted.

Oh well…shall report back once he has started his job 😊I think that my son Is very capable of dressing in the right clothes for his job but shall refer back to you if he needs any advice.Thank you 😳

Another Australian here desperately trying to understand why on earth students are required to ask to remove items of clothing and the ballet flats? Lace ups for all here (wouldn’t the ballet flats be a work health and safety issue in science class?)

I've never understood the arguments about uniforms preparing them for working life. Many won't end up in a role with any sort of dress requirement. And for those that do, I don't see e.g. professionals in the US, Germany, France totally bewildered at what to wear for a meeting.

My daughter is in Year 8 and it's definitely lace-up shoes/trainers here. Apparently, the cool kids wear Kickers or black Nike AirForce 1s (her school allows black AirFocre 1s as school shoes). It's not cool to wear ballet pumps.

The uniform should be hoody, t shirt, trainers, tricky bottoms.for ease of movement and more active lessons

Exactly. I've never worn uniforms in my life because I grew up abroad. That didn't stop me from entering the professional world and working in City law firms. 🤷‍♀️ My younger brother earns way over six figures and has never adhered to any dress code, even though he has worked for some of the largest corporate giants, including financial institutions, in the world. He once came to my firm's evening drinks reception in jeans and a hoodie (which I admit was a bit of an overkill 🤣). I really don't get the obsession with uniform rules. I wish the school would care less about the colour of hair bands and more about pastoral care.

The big advantage of working in FE was not having these silly rules.

When I did supply in schools I would introduce myself, appologise if I got their names wrong in the register and as them to correct me and that I gave them all permission to remove blazers and jumpers.

And I had a stash of pens in my bag, bright, glittery with 'Stolen from Ms X' printed on them.

Water can be drunk if it is from a proper water bottle and in FE they were also allowed to eat as long as it didn't disturb others with smell or sound so sweets were fine, fish and chips or crisps not fine.

I don’t understand why wearing a simple uniform is such a problem for some.
Items are widely available and apart from the blazer and tie are relatively cheap compared to other types of clothing (branded especially).
Many local community banks/some schools have second hand stock (ours is overrun with school uniforms).
I’m glad my DC wore a uniform at school - when they moved into college I had to spend much more to clothe them.

Can someone please explain WHY DOES IT BLOODY MATTER IF THEY TAKE THEIR BLAZER OFF? Surely they’re still wearing uniform items underneath the blazer? What chaos does this cause that I’m clearly too dull to comprehend?

My mind boggles at petty bullsh*t UK schools think is important. I have never in my life been in a situation where I haven’t been able to remove or put back on a layer of clothing if I wished.

Exactly! It’s almost as though there is no reason at all just the old “we have always done it like this so it has to be right” even though it makes no sense at all.

Social fucking control, conform to the powerful or else feel the wrath... Its all a load of bollocks!

For fuck sake, are you really that numb? Educate yourself!

Oh get a fucking grip, that's a lame excuse for your own incapability!

Exactly!!!

I teach at a university and I couldn't care less if students drink or even eat. It's not a concentration camp. It doesn't disturb me at all. It actually encourages students to participate in class if the atmosphere is friendly