To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

Being condescending was not my intention and I apologies that I came across that way. It was most definitely not intentional.

Lots don't. I'm not spreading misinformation. You are by saying there's no alternatives.

You may get some choice over what school you send your kids to but almost all secondaries are going to be big schools with only so much supervision. If that format doesn't suit your child you might not be able to access anything different.

You absolutely are. It is not as easy as you're making it out to be.

Well I don't believe that for a second. Let's just leave it there shall we.

Well - it's not something I can prove, is it? Just your interpretation and your inferences.

So, there we are.

At what point did I say it was easy? The truth remains however, if you hate the school that much then you have the option to move.

Except it's not the truth because not everybody actually has that option 🙃

Of course everyone has that option.

If you believe strongly enough. I personally think getting incredibly het up about my child asking permission to remove their blazer is ridiculous and would never move my child for that reason but you clearly have seriously strong feelings about the matter.

If you don't like it, move, or quite honestly stop whinging about it.

Sorry, how do they have that option if no other schools have places? Or there are actually no other schools close enough?

I'm glad you can't get het up about it. But stop pretending there's some simple solution.

I haven't pretended there is a simple solution. There might be space at other
Local schools or you might need to travel. The option is still there even if you choose not to take it.

Teachers don't choose the uniform

🙄 At such an amazing post graduate placement you'd thought the dress code was fairly straight forward. I'm sure a quick call to hr would resolve it.

It was fine. Concentrating and being engaged with a lesson meant I didn't think about thirst. That was the norm then. It didn't occur to anyone that we needed to drink constantly as now. It's a newish thing. I can only remember anyone bringing a glass of water in when they had a persistent and annoying cough.
My kids wore polo shirts and navy hoodies to school. No jeans allowed but trainers were OK. Nice and casual and comfortable but generic enough to be affordable. Now the same school's all blazers with badges and extra braid for prefects. At some stage there was a uniform U-turn and all these ridiculous affectations came in. So YANBU except for the water bottles.

I went to a very strict private school. It was fantastic. All pupils were expected to take responsibility for themselves, their behaviour, homework, attendance and punctuality, their proper attire.
The whole point (which has been somewhat missed by a few in this thread) of the seemingly excessive discipline is that by punishing minor infractions and expecting the children to request permission for relatively unimportant behaviour e.g. getting up to sharpen a pencil, taking off a jumper - ‘bad’ behaviours very rarely escalate. Children learn to navigate the rules and regulations, negotiate and regulate their own behaviour.
No human needs to drink water constantly, it’s perfectly acceptable to take a drink between classes, or, god forbid, wait for a break. It is not necessary for anyone to be sucking on a water bottle constantly.

And what would happen if you didn’t have to walk around in a jumper and blazer all day? Like in the real world? Nothing that’s what. Like I have said before most of the rest of the world manages to run schools like a prison. they don’t seem to have so many petty little rules that are there only for the sake of having them.
your argument about jobs needing a uniform so this will get them ready is ridiculous.
do you ask your boss if you can take your jumper off?

Surely they're still in uniform whether they have blazers on or off? They're presumably still wearing uniform shirts, ties, trousers, skirts, socks, tights, shoes etc.

When I was in school we had blazers but were only ever expected to wear them occasionally outdoors if the weather was too warm for coats. Indoors, we had uniform jumpers and a choice of long or short sleeved shirts, no logos. We were absolutely free to decide whether we wanted to wear a jumper or not both in lessons and in corridors etc. There was no anarchy, and certainly no arguments about whether you were allowed jumpers on or off. Surely in your school if it was left to the pupils you too would have no arguments, and you also wouldn't have children distracted from lessons by being too hot?

I'd be seriously concerned if the only exception ever allowed is when the head decides there is a heatwave. Don't you allow exceptions for disability and sensory difficulties? And why does it have to be a heatwave? Can't it just be a nice warm day?

I never thought my school that fantastic, but bad behaviours never escalated there despite the fact that we didn't have to ask permission to take off a jumper or sharpen a pencil. Maybe choosing to treat teenagers like sensible human beings able to make decisions for themselves pays off?

Everyone really doesn't have that option. In our area, secondary schools are all academies with stupidly strict rules. The only option is fee paying, which obviously not everyone can afford, or home education, which for people who need to earn a living isn't possible.

My son goes to a school that insists on uniform trousers or skirts with a logo sewn on which increases the price by over £20, despite the fact that you can rarely see the stupid logo. I'm planning to initiate my own personal protest when he grows out of his current trousers by buying bog-standard supermarket trousers of the same colour and sewing in the cut-out logo, and continuing that as long as I have to. I've also ever-so-innocently asked the headteacher whether he's aware of current government guidance on school uniform and what the school plans to do to comply. He's being strangely slow to answer, so my next port of call is likely to be the chair of governors.

Full uniform is required at all times on the school site is the rationale. Otherwise, students would wear any kind of combination whenever they felt like it, whever they feel like it (and they try!).

But why would that matter, @withaspongeandarustyspanner? What harm would it do? When I was at school we could wear long or short sleeve shirts; jumper on or off; skirts, pinafores or trousers; and tights, short socks or long socks. It all worked absolutely fine.

At the moment, there are lots of students doing their best to keep their coats on (because it's cold). There will probably be a point when they are allowed to. More often than not, students want to push the boundaries - whatever boundary it is.

Why on earth shouldn't they keep their coats on if they're cold? Again, what harm would it do, particularly if at some point it will be allowed anyway? Will they learn better if they're too cold?

In our area realistically there are only two schools you would have a chance of getting into, three if you are a girl, and all have silly uniform rules.

Yet all over the world children go to school with no uniform rules, and still manage to get jobs when they leave. Perhaps they learn those life skills precisely because they are allowed choice in what they wear?

I hear all the things you are saying, but you are saying them to the wrong person. If you think uniform policy is stupid then you need to complain to someone who makes the policy rather than a plain old teacher. We're supposed to enforce the rules, not make them. You might, like some people, think we are stupid or weak for doing so, but it is literally our job to do that.

The discussion of socks took up quite a lot of my schooling.

Our uniform was nave blue but we had to wear white socks. The uniform skirt had to be knee length, no option for trousers and also not allowed to travel to/from school not in uniform.

One teacher once asked why we had an obsession with wearing blue socks.

The 'obsession' was not about the colour but because at the time, all white socks were cotton but with blue you could get thicker socks..

BTW that was the winter uniform, from Easter until September we had pink gingham dresses.

This was a comp btw.