To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

His tie got knocked off? Sorry but is he wearing a clip on tie? Some of this sounds a tad far fetched.

These rules sound normal to me (I left secondary in 2008) and the reason for them is not because of most of the generally nice and normal teens, it’s because of some of the absolutely ridiculous things a minority of teens have done in the past and led to seemingly silly, but actually necessary rules.

No excuse for them allowing bullying.

I'm not SLT (thankfully) so I don't get involved in making the rules. Full uniform is required at all times on the school site is the rationale. Otherwise, students would wear any kind of combination whenever they felt like it, whever they feel like it (and they try!).

Classrooms are one thing - where a student can remove their blazer if they are hot (I never make them wear their blazer in lessons if they are hot), but the corridor is considered main school, I suppose and they need to be fully dressed in it. Rarely does a student refuse. After a reminder, they usually just say "Oh yes" and put it on.

At the moment, there are lots of students doing their best to keep their coats on (because it's cold). There will probably be a point when they are allowed to. More often than not, students want to push the boundaries - whatever boundary it is.

My son got a negative last week in PE for not having the correct socks on. Does it affect how he plays sport? Of course it doesn't. Does it seem petty? Probably. But it is the rule, it's clear - he knows the rule. I'm not going to complain about it because it's clearly stated in the uniform and behaviour policy.

So basically, there isn't any actual good reason, it's just a petty rule and you're fully supportive of it. Oh dear.

I don't think allowing blazers not to be worn in the corridor means the kind of free for all you're describing. If they have "other combinations" on, then they had that on under their blazer anyway, the blazer makes not a shit of difference.

Of course they put it on because they don't want a detention. Does it make them learn better? Gain better results? Like school? Respect you? No. It doesn't. It achieves exactly nothing.

In life you don't generally get to pick and choose many of the rules we follow in a civilised society.

If you have major issues with uniforms then become a politician or a school governor and bring change about.

Considering there are already rules about uniforms which schools choose not to follow, I don't think becoming a politician would help. I don't think becoming a governor would help either, since the main motivation is money. Unless you were offering to replace the schools cut from the certain uniform shops (and yes, it does happen, happened at DSSs school) then I don't think whatever you said would make a change.

Considering there is already actual legislation that they ignore. Just for clarity, a rule, that they ignore.

Then my advice to you is complain to your head teacher rather than continue an argument with me.

So, out of interest - there are no rules at work or in your life that you still follow but disagree with? You don't follow the rules you don't like, is that what you're saying?

I absolutely did complain when DSS attended a school who ignored any help he actually required and instead picked on his uniform. I have taken it up with them several times intact. What happened? Ooh! Nothing.

Thankfully I don't have to deal with that any more, and my child is at primary where they actually treat them well. If my child is failed at his high school, of course I'll complain.

This is a forum, incase you hadn't realised. This is literally what it is for.

Of course I follow rules I don't like, well, laws I don't like. I don't particularly like paying my council tax for the fuck all they provide but I do it, because it's a law. But I question it.

Presumably if you'd been around when women weren't allowed the vote you'd have quietly accepted that? Accepted segregation? Lived happily in wartime Germany?

When we don't question things, they don't change.

So choose a different school. I find it constantly baffling that people send their children to a school that has rules and then decides to complain about them. No rules are ever going to please everyone. There's more than your child in a school. If you don't like it, move.

As you well know as a teacher, you can't just choose a different school. You get what you're given in many places.

The vast majority of people in this country have no choice or very little choice of school . We have one school , that’s it unless you drive 10 miles to the next one .

Sorry, wrong poster. But as above - not an actual option.

Also, there are all sorts of rules and expectations that happen in all sorts of jobs that I've had (I haven't always been a teacher). I've always met those expectations - I've worn appropriate dress/worked as per my contract/behaved as expected. I don't see that this is any different.

Maybe you don't want a kind of school for your child with rules. There are alternative schools and other options. I can usually tell from interactions with a child, what their parent thinks about their school, school in general and teachers. It may be that you had an unpleasant experience at school, of course. I don't know that.

Have you ever had a job where you’ve had to colour in stitching on your shoes to match the dress policy? Or been punished for forgetting your iPad or whatever?

You're making a huge assumptions about me. Please don't.

I feel like you're directing all of your frustration at me. Yes, it's a forum , yes, I had noticed, but you have been arguing with me about things I've not actually said I've done.

I've had a really intense half term and I am exhausted. I can't tell you how many times, this week alone, I have questioned whether I would rather go to work in a supermarket with less stress, no parents complaining and not being sworn at by children.

But, yeah, you're right. They swear at me because they have no respect for me which is my fault for asking them to put their blazer on.

I'm making huge assumptions? You've just said I want a school with no rules. I categorically haven't said that.

It's not your fault is it? As you say you don't make the rules. You do however agree with them. You can't expect everyone to like them.

Or perhaps I'm just making a point you don't like.

You're actually being personal and quite unpleasant.

Seriously? Coming from you with your last two comments? Ok.

So effectively calling me stupid and condescending isn't rude?

My children’s secondary (state comprehensive) is obsessed with detentions and it’s so boring. The children just see it as a bit of a game (detentions issued at varying levels of severity, so lots of ‘ooh so-and-so got a level 1 today, if he does it again he’ll get a level 2’ etc) and it seems to have no positive impact on behaviour whatsoever.

There's always alternative schools if you vehemently disagree with a policy in the current school.

No, there's not. Most schools have waiting lists. You can't just demand a place at any old school you know. Don't spread misinformation. Several people have already pointed this out as being incorrect.