To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

They are just exam factories with little consideration for a child’s well-being. My son is in years 11 and has SEND, he fled from school on Friday scaling an eight foot high wall because of a stupid misunderstanding that escalated into him being humiliated. They don’t understand his needs a5 all and adopt a one size fits all approach. I had to fight to get him a regular tie because the clip on one was choking him due to his sensory needs.

@Catfordthefifth

I said uniform.
You said colour of socks.

Certain jobs require a uniform as a legal requirement to meet industry standards.
Very common in the service industry with jobs such as construction, healthcare, security, police and the military.

Most employers have a dress code, many have a set uniform provided by the company or organisation.

Indeed. I also have a uniform. I knew how they work. I also know most of them aren't half as strict as some secondary schools.

Some employers enforce very strict uniform/ dress codes, some don’t.

Some schools enforce very strict uniform/ dress codes, some don’t.

I was in secondary school in the 1970's, we stood on our own 2 feet I'm afraid, that's life. All this molly coddling by parents now does not prepare a child for the awful world we live in.
We never had drink bottles in fact I'm struggling to remember if I got a drink all day. We started at 8.50am and finished at 3.50pm. Yes I had sweets in my bag i secretly ate and we had a tuck shop with all those lovely sugar filled delights now banned, and I remained a tiny 7.5 stone adult despite all that evil sugar.
We got detention for no tie or having a big fat short tie because we were breaking the rules. We sucked it up and laughed. I got detention when my PE kit was stolen from a locker too, my mum went mad but hey nothing changed.
My mother worked and I got to school or not, did homework or not it was left to me, it didn't hurt me except I kick myself now knowing I could have gained A levels had I tried.
Parents now aren't helping their kids learn that this world does not owe them a living, that it wont bend to suit them. Its an awful world and kids need to learn that or they will struggle as adults. Mummy wont always be there to carry them, they have to learn they must carry themselves.

I'm loving the contradiction between children standing on their own two feet and being independent, while simultaneously requiring teacher permission to have a drink or remove a jumper or blazer.

@pollyanna1962 no you did not stand on your own 2 feet at all, you got belted every time you made the same “mistakes” that these children are making today. I had my bare arse smacked I don’t know how many times as an ND child who simply could not bear to sit in a blazer and a jumper. I don’t know what real world but prepared me for. I now earn a whole lot more than a teacher sat in my living room in a pair of leggings and a Hoody

Of course it's a contradiction.

Here - be in charge of being on time, remembering homework, having correct uniform and pe it (whether your parents can afford it or not) but oh no don't think you're allowed to take your own blazer off if you need to.

It's a rule for the sake of having a rule. It doesn't help anyone and I'd bet it makes not a shit of difference when people leave school. If anything it just breeds resentment. I would not respect someone who has happy for me to be uncomfortable whilst in their care.

Parents will have been sent a home/school agreement to sign to say you agree to the rules. Of you don't agree, raise the issue then. Pretty much every school will have a set of rules, though and you might not agree.

I think it's common courtesy to ask to take off your blazer in class. I never have an issue with it. I usually say 'thank you for asking'. Some students take them off anyway but I don't sanction for it.

As for drinking in class - water is fine, but cordial or fizzy drinks are not as they usually get spilled and there is a sticky residue which is unpleasant for subsequent students. I will ask students to put away drinks that are obviously not water. Students really expect to be able to leave the lesson to refill their bottle, which I don't allow. No one is going to dehydrate in the course of a lesson. It encourages forward planning and organisation.

Some schools 'sweat the small stuff' because then it doesn't become a bigger issue.

Teachers are expected to enforce the rules set by the school. I think that parents forget that sometimes.

I should add, that blazers are worn at all times in communal areas, which I do enforce - if you don't have a blazer on in the corridor, expect to be stopped and potentially sanctioned.

Yanbu. I think the obsession with perfect unifrom etc is silly and petty and shows a skewed set of values.

What is the rationale for that? What might potentially happen if someone doesn't have a blazer on in the corridor?

By running schools more democratically I meant- Head.elected by the staff and all.appointments (too many in.my view) subject to their approval School Council with one rep from each year freely elected and all school rules subject to their approval.

Like I said in my previous post, teachers are expected to enforce the rules of the school. It's the rule of the school, so I enforce it.

I feel that parents think we just do these things for laughs. We're following instructions we have also been given.

Tell me you don't know teenagers without telling me you don't know teenagers.

Are you for real?

We'd have daily stonings, the ducking stool, gladiatorial combats to the death, lions and circuses by Tuesday P4.

Oh, and compulsory clothing checks where students were both made to dress more conservatively and also, if it's a coeducational setting, more revealing.

Yes, I'm aware you're following instuctions but why do blazers in the corridor actually matter? Why does the rule exist?

Equally who would know if you didn't enforce it?

YANBU. DD was given a detention in her first week back for being 1 minute late to class (they hadn't given her a lunch pass so she was late getting/finishing lunch). . She was given a detention for getting a low mark in an assessment. She was given a detention for not wearing her tie, although this was later removed as she had forgotten that her tie was actually in her school bag so found it.

I am trying to get her extra time for exams and use of a laptop etc. The school never advised me that any of this was possible, I only know from other parents.
Last term I had to wait over 4 weeks for a response from SENCO.

This term, DD took her blazer off in the corridor and I received a phone call from Head of House the very same day demanding to know why I hadn't bought her a bigger blazer (she told them it was uncomfortable). He asked if it was true that I couldn't afford a new one.

If your child is struggling and needs help then they are all too busy and nobody gives a damn, but god forbid they lose their tie or take their blazer off.

Next time I need to speak to a teacher I know what to do, send her to school in her pyjamas.

I 100% support wearing a uniform, but it is ridiculous that it takes precedent over everything else including learning support.

Ì am.for real. I am.saying that all proposed rule changes should need the agreement of school.council. Ever heard of Summerhill?

Yanbu!! The rules are so totally over the top!! Secondary school is supposed to prepare you for the rest of your life!! It prepares you for absolutely nothing!! People that are saying you chose the school must be really privileged to live in an area where there’s a choice in where you send your children!! Asking to take off your jumper or blazer in the middle of summer, really it’s crazy, children under 5 can’t often regulate their own body temperature but I’m pretty sure children of 11+ can!! Do the teachers also have to ask permission? Not a chance, it would go against their human rights or something like that!!

Are you, though? Because you ask is if you didn't understand.

Who would know? Other colleagues and students. I mean, it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

Of course I understand. There's no need to be so condescending. Do you treat your students like that?

You didn't actually answer my question though.

And so what if they do! I'm guessing many other staff think it's ridiculous too.

It’s not just about blazers though, it’s the ability to follow uniform rules. My job has very strict uniform rules including hair, makeup and jewellery alongside issued uniform and safety footwear. If I turn up in the wrong uniform, without my hat or with nail varnish on I am clocked out and sent home to correct my attire and don’t get paid till I am correctly dressed and ready for work. My child’s school asks why they are incorrectly dressed, helps them correct it (lends them the correct attire) and informs the whole staff if it’s not fixable (shoes left at dads etc). My son and daughters first jobs had similar dress codes that were slightly less strict but stricter than their schools.