To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

Sorry I'm actually quoting itsjustnotok

I just came here up say the exact same thing.

I invigilate at a local secondary, they have introduced a "dress" code for all staff includingloys of pernickety stuff including no coloured hair and no flip flops. If I want to continue I'll have to grow out my hair and buy sandals. Staff are not allowed to use mobiles in school. If we have a problem in the exam we can use ours to call the exam office land line and hope someone is in the office. Lots of petty stuff.

No wonder out children today have worst mental health in Europe. Certainly making me think twice about my children's further and what we are going to do. The syste m is failing here.

Goodness, sorry few typos there. We are thinking twice about our children's future in this country, the system is clearly failing here.

The rules are not that different but it’s the method of enforcement that has changed. In my day if you had something minor wrong with your uniform you were told to change it for the next day , not sent to ‘isolation’ ( done thing which didn’t even exist then. I cannot imagine my mothers reaction if someone had phoned her to say I must be collected from school for having the wrong socks.

the no excuse no explanation method does not breed a respectful society. Our young people are growing up and thinking that it is normal to ‘cancel’ people, to not give people a second chance to be incapable to debate and discussion everything is an absolute whereas the reality is that life is not like that. Sometimes people have the wrong socks for valid reasons , sometimes they are late for reasons beyond their control.

it’s interesting that dress codes were previously slacker at school but apparently according to a previous poster standards of young people gave declined now that uniform is stricter. Could it be that we have removed their ability to make appropriate choices for themselves.

The hair colour is weird, but flip-flops are an OHS issue.

The mobiles in school is odd and will no doubt change the moment an issue turns up when SLT so wish a teacher had had a phone. Think schoolyard incidents/accidents/need for ambulance.

As for the exam hall, I can see they want to keep a lid on possible breaches of exam regulations, so not unreasonable. But then again my last school was in Victoria, where teachers aren't allowed at all in public exam rooms.

That's ridiculous. When I see people coughing and sneezing into their hands now, they make me feel queasy. Saw a woman sneeze into her hand in Sainsbury's the other day whilst she was picking up fruit and veg. At least with an elbow you aren't touching everything in sight.

I don't want to blame individual teachers as it get that there isn't an easy way to manage 1000+ teenagers in one place. It's just that it can be such a horrible experience for the students and some of the comments I've read about well behaved children turning into anxious wrecks are making me wince remembering it myself.

It might be that if my school had seemed to have a grip on the violence and bullying and I'd felt safe it might have been easier to accept all the rules about the small things. When the same teachers are interrogating the natural blondes about their hair colour or insisting on a specific number of stripes on your time but turning a blind eye when you're knocked to the ground and kicked in the stomach in the bus queues it's hard to have respect for them.

They need to focus more on education and learning and less on petty rules. I agree with uniforms for school, punctuality etc but if they make a mistake why does it have to be so punitive? For example, DD lost her PE top so I told her to wear a plain white one instead. Apparently this wasn’t acceptable so she was sent to isolation instead. Why can’t common sense prevail !

Exactly

Agree with all of this

I was at secondary school from 1989-1994.
Of course we had policies and rules, but they were not so strictly enforced in the way they are now.

Our parents also didn’t have to buy uniform with all the logos on from a specified school retailer. You could if you wanted to (Clive Marks I recall was the one back in my day), but as long as the stuff they bought was in line with the school colours that was all that was required. So you could buy stuff from anywhere.
Our uniform was navy and white, but you could wear black instead of navy and cream or light blue instead of white. Girls didn’t have to wear ties, only the boys. And we didn’t have school blazers. You could wear a jumper or cardigan - which again didn’t require the logo.

If someone had any issues with their shoes or a foot injury, they were allowed to wear trainers until they could get it rectified. They just needed a note from home. It was far more relaxed.

There was no such thing as ‘isolation’. Detention was mainly for behavioural issues during class. Not for every little mistake.

And at 45 years old, I’ve navigated the working world just fine. I wear smart clothes for work. Uniform where I’ve worked in jobs that required it. School rules being more relaxed didn’t stop me learning any of this stuff.

I don’t recall being allowed to drink water in class though. You’d have to wait until break time. We managed fine, but then we didn’t have ridiculous blazer rules to adhere too, so we weren’t overheating in the summer!

Why don’t you want your child to learn discipline and some personal responsibility? Forgetting his PE kit? Even when the days for PE are clearly allocated, not completing home work? Why???Drinking water all the time? Unless he has a medical problem, there’s not reason he cannot hold off water for 40mins to an hour. It’s all distracting wanting to pee or drink all the time and lots of kids use that to interrupt the lesson. . Secondary school is different from primary school. Children are expected to have some level of self responsibility because guess what, that’s what the read
world is about

Personal responsibility? But not allowed to decide when to take their own blazer off? Not able to decide when it's appropriate to have a drink?

Not able to decide when it's appropriate to have a drink?

Obviously not if they are all slurping and guzzling during lessons. Hence the need to set appropriate boundaries.

@WhatNoRaisins this is exactly my thought. The focus is on the petty details of school uniform. Not the proper bad behaviour of violence, intimidation of others etc.
And agree with others it instills a lack of two way respect. Not that my DS or others should get away with flouting the rules, but giving them a bit of autonomy about small things like deciding when to take off their own blazer etc. Give them a chance to explain why they might be late as it might well be legitimate (e.g mum's car has broken down, family member taken ill etc). These things are important too.

Literally nobody has said this happens. Talk about hyperbole.

It's all teaching kids to do things for themselves and preparing them for the 'real world' after school, where they may well have to stick to a dress code and responsibility for deadlines for work. Make sure that they have what they need with them for work and meetings. I don't see the problem myself. If something isn't clear then they should ask the teacher. What would you do at work if it wasn't clear how to hand something in or when it was due? They shouldn't get everything handed to them on a plate or they will need it for the rest of their life.

My son started secondary this year too, he had a couple of teething troubles in the first few weeks, but is getting on fine with things now.

If their are real problems or your kid has special needs then you need to speak to the school. My son has special needs and the senco wasn't doing what they should so we spoke to his mentor and it was fixed straight away.

They shouldn't get everything handed to them on a plate or they will need it for the rest of their life

And yet they're not allowed to decide when they're too warm. It's a direct contradiction.

Yeah, the asking to take their blazers off I don't get. Other things make sense though.

Which other things?

I agree that homework should be done and I agree with the concept of a uniform.

But there's a stark difference between sending a child home, giving them a detention or putting them in isolation because they're wearing navy socks instead of black, or they've forgotten their calculator once.

It's interesting how you admit that your child has special needs and requires a level of support above that which he was initially receiving, but you're more than prepared to throw all the other 12 year olds under the bus for making the odd simple mistake.

I am opposed to.both homework and uniforms and believe that school rules should be based on the libertarian principle that only acts infringing the valid rights of others can be termed crimes. That or run schools more democratically.

When did you last spend 7 weeks in front of 28 teenagers, 5 x a day, 5 days a week?
Are you a teacher?
The model you are proposing would require the entire education system to be dismantled and rebuilt.
Nice thought … 1800 teenagers of varying ages together, all with an equal say in how the place is run?
Many adults work within companies and organisations with far stricter expectations, rules and regulations ever seen in schools.
Uniforms included.

Give them a chance to explain why they might be late as it might well be legitimate (e.g mum's car has broken down, family member taken ill etc). These things are important too

Yes they are, and the parent should call in with this info or send a note/ email.

Do they? Like what?

I don't think there are many jobs where anyone even notices the colour of your socks. Even the armed forces are a bit softer on their appearance requirements now.

Most workplaces recognise that running the place like a prison is not good for staff retention! - and I say that as someone who does wear a uniform!