Page 14 | To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

craxyrulebraker · 2022-10-19T21:19:37+00:00

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong. You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc Not allowed to drink water in lessons Cautions for forgotten kit Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

AncientQuercus · 21/10/2022 20:36

fUNNYfACE36 · 19/10/2022 22:58

When I was at school people managed with a drink at break and lunchtime perfectly well

I'm really old and drinks were only at lunchtime when I was at school.

I really can't stand this obsession with constantly drinking water. People sit in meetings at my work constantly glugging and crinkling bottles.

DeLan · 21/10/2022 20:45

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TigerLilly33 · 21/10/2022 20:49

MarshaMelrose · 19/10/2022 22:24

Why does she need to drink water during the class? She's not going to get dehydrated for 40 mins. Of course you get warned for forgetting your pe kit. And detentions if it's repeated. We didn't get detentions for undone homework straightaway but if it was a repeated problem we would.

Obviously bullying isn't acceptable but there are rules in secondary school or it would be chaos.

40 minutes?? My step daughter has two hour lessons at her school!

Nat6999 · 21/10/2022 20:50

I went to a school with no uniform, no dress code & no restrictions of what you wore for PE, there also was none of this rubbish about grades of hair length or restrictions of hair colour. Funny enough most kids dressed alike, jeans, Tshirt or sweatshirt & trainers. It didn't hold anyone back, there were pupils went to Oxford & Cambridge, joined the armed forces, we had a very famous photographer, one boy who is one of the greatest British artists of the last 20 years , several professional sportsmen, lots of musicians, a writer, why should being forced to wear a uniform define the quality of schools?

TigerLilly33 · 21/10/2022 20:53

Silverangels · 19/10/2022 22:51

I remember getting a phone call about dds shoes
i couldn’t make out the problem at first-it turned out the ballet pumps I bought her-the ones all the girls wore,had bows on the toes
they put her in isolation until she got home and I snipped them off
they couldn’t have cared less when she was beaten up or the time she was being bullied but bows on her shoes was the worst crime in the world

Absolutely ridiculous! Your poor daughter 😮

SilverGlitterBaubles · 21/10/2022 20:56

I am all for uniform but I think blazers are just ridiculous especially the idea that they cannot remove them except in extreme circumstances a heatwave. Most workplaces have evolved to a more smart/ casual type of dress code. Given that schools require a more practical approach I really do not think being trussed up in a tie and blazer is conducive to a comfortable learning environment.

Also I think perhaps Y7s are probably more hyper sensitive to the threats from teachers but give it another 12 months and they probably won't care at all when you wish they did

Goldbar · 21/10/2022 20:57

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Most school blazers are cheap, scratchy, ill-fitting, synthetic affairs. Not really made for comfort and breathability. Given the lack of ventilation in many school classrooms, it's not difficult to see how some students, especially those who feel the heat, might need to remove them to learn comfortably.

Blackheath95 · 21/10/2022 20:57

@Island35 I still don’t understand how asking to take a blazer or jumper off is preparing for later life/ uniform or dress codes. I have worked in uniform and non uniform roles. If I was hot I took off a layer if I was cold it went back on again. I didn’t need to ask permission. This was also true for school. We had a blazer as part of the winter uniform. You had to where it to and from school but it just stayed in your locker if you didn’t want to have it on during the day. Or you could leave it on the back of the chair. And no it was not an anarchic hell hole.
do the teachers have to ask the head if they want to take their coat or jumper off? Not a silly question considering some of the PPS on this thread.

SilverGlitterBaubles · 21/10/2022 20:58

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Could you spend a day at work in a blazer?

bellamountain · 21/10/2022 21:04

I despair at uniform rules. Thank goodness my DS primary school is a school sweater with supermarket trousers and polo shirts and are allowed to wear trainers. The local secondary schools seem horrendous though and I'm not looking forward to their completely outdated rules. If I had my way, we would be like the majority of European countries and the US where kids can wear what they like. There are very very few professions now where you have to be suited and booted.

Blackheath95 · 21/10/2022 21:05

@DeLan comfort, ease of movement, too hot, are you ( baring obvious exceptions) FORCED by an arbitrary rule to where a certain item of clothing all day.

LikeAStar1994 · 21/10/2022 21:11

"Why do they need to drink water in the classroom? Lessons are only 40 minutes"

Is that so, Einstein?

You lot are so far up your own arses I truly despair!

Water is a basic human right!

Only on Mumsnet

Shauny098 · 21/10/2022 21:19

Itsokay2020 · 19/10/2022 23:44

Those questioning the point of uniform, would it surprise you that secondary schools report a drop in attendance on non-uniform days? Peer pressure, fear of ‘being different’ and anxiety about not wearing the current trends are just some of the reasons why attendance drops. Do you also realise that schools are measured on pupil attendance by the LA, DfE and Ofsted? Do you understand what Ofsted are looking for when they inspect a school? When you read the inspection framework and handbook, you’ll understand why schools have standards and expectations.

In a place where rules don’t exist/apply… what do we have? The first word that springs to my mind is anarchy. Is anarchy conducive to a prime learning environment? No, of course not.

Interesting that your view is we either have “North Korea” or complete and total anarchy 😂….just some fucking common sense from these schools is needed. A middle ground.

Fannydango · 21/10/2022 21:23

I could’ve written your post, I said exactly the same about DD’s school the other day. She’s a really well behaved kid and never got told off in primary. But secondary school dishes out “behaviour points “ for the most minor misdemeanour and she’s had a few - I feel like it just makes kids who are genuinely respectful and well behaved feel like “naughty” kids.

And yes, the pastoral care is crap. We had a bereavement which I told the school about via phone and email - I didn’t even get so much as a “sorry for your loss” just “thanks for letting us know”. No staff checked in on her or asked how she was.

From what she tells me, a lot of the staff are pretty hostile towards the kids.

It’s like they’re so focused on “this isn’t primary, you’ve got to be independent” that they’re worried any kindness is too mollycoddling.

AND they’re obsessed with attendance -always banging on to parents about how you must send your child to school even if they’re not feeling great as they’ll probably be fine.

Fannydango · 21/10/2022 21:25

Blackheath95 · 21/10/2022 20:57

@Island35 I still don’t understand how asking to take a blazer or jumper off is preparing for later life/ uniform or dress codes. I have worked in uniform and non uniform roles. If I was hot I took off a layer if I was cold it went back on again. I didn’t need to ask permission. This was also true for school. We had a blazer as part of the winter uniform. You had to where it to and from school but it just stayed in your locker if you didn’t want to have it on during the day. Or you could leave it on the back of the chair. And no it was not an anarchic hell hole.
do the teachers have to ask the head if they want to take their coat or jumper off? Not a silly question considering some of the PPS on this thread.

yes!!! When we had those really hot days this summer, they had to have permission to remove their blazers!!! Like you say, what lesson about adulthood does that teach them????

echt · 21/10/2022 21:29

AND they’re obsessed with attendance -always banging on to parents about how you must send your child to school even if they’re not feeling great as they’ll probably be fine

The government sets the bar for attendance, and schools must comply, hence the bit about sending them in when they're not great.

Canthinkofaname79 · 21/10/2022 21:30

I would like to hear one, just one, reason why blazers and ties help my children learn? What do they add to their school experience? They cost a fortune and I can't see a single benefit. I never had a blazer at school.

MarshaMelrose · 21/10/2022 21:31

Water is a basic human right!

😂😂😂 It's 40 minutes.

BCBird · 21/10/2022 21:36

If you don't like the school rules don't send them there. I'm a teacher and I think uniform is a good idea
As s child I was glad of a uniform as we didn't have much money as s family. When you wear uniform the social differences are less obvious. Uniforms are not as expensive as they used to be. I would be more concerned about the poor pastoral care.

echt · 21/10/2022 21:39

Canthinkofaname79 · 21/10/2022 21:30

I would like to hear one, just one, reason why blazers and ties help my children learn? What do they add to their school experience? They cost a fortune and I can't see a single benefit. I never had a blazer at school.

They don't. I'd love to see evidence that any school claims this though.

But every UK school I've ever taught in, parents all want school uniforms.

Canthinkofaname79 · 21/10/2022 21:39

BCBird · 21/10/2022 21:36

If you don't like the school rules don't send them there. I'm a teacher and I think uniform is a good idea
As s child I was glad of a uniform as we didn't have much money as s family. When you wear uniform the social differences are less obvious. Uniforms are not as expensive as they used to be. I would be more concerned about the poor pastoral care.

I had no choice of school, and I don't mind uniform I just don't see the point or purpose of blazers and ties. I have just paid 60 pounds for a blazer, which I think is extortionate, like most people at the moment I could have easily done without that extra cost. My son could wear trousers and polo shirt with a hoody like he did at primary. Much more comfortable and practical.

Canthinkofaname79 · 21/10/2022 21:40

echt · 21/10/2022 21:39

They don't. I'd love to see evidence that any school claims this though.

But every UK school I've ever taught in, parents all want school uniforms.

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It's beyond me. I certainly don't want it. I iron my kids shirts and tell them to obey the rules but I don't agree with it.

echt · 21/10/2022 21:41

Sorry, not all parents, an overwhelming majority.

Canthinkofaname79 · 21/10/2022 21:42

No need to apologise! The British public can be very strange!

Isitsixoclockalready · 21/10/2022 21:47

It can be quite full on making the jump but my son who is two years into middle school did find it a big change at first but seems to have taken to the rules pretty well. He is a bit of an anxious lad but doesn't seem stressed with the rules. That being said, I would be concerned if there wasn't sufficient SEN support at a school.