To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

get to fuck with that. You aren't the thread language police.

😂😂 True but I'm entitled to say that abusing someone by calling them a vulgar word is disappointing.

Shhhh, teachers are not allowed to exist outside of the classroom

All of this!

This thread has clear examples of why teaching children is so difficult. There's an immovable core of vulgar behaviour.

Although I'm baffled as to the obsession with water. Does it raise IQ levels.

Why would I lie about how long my lessons were 😂 We used to have a 2.5 hour long lesson twice a week in the afternoon. The rule was that we weren't allowed to leave lessons to fill up water bottles (unless it was a very hot day) but we could still drink in class. I sip water all day, as I did at school, as does my mum and all my children. They always have a water bottle which they can drink from.

I don't get the connection between wearing a blazer to the point it is so uncomfortable you are distracted to 'showing respect to the teacher'.

In my interactions with school they often comment on how polite and well-mannered she is, and how she contributes well in class and does her best.

She also struggles with organising herself and her belongings.

We didn't get our first choice school, but this school have been amazing. They have excellent behaviour without having to resort to petty rules. They also get excellent results, as a comprehensive school with an average FSM/EHCP intake. Their overall approach to behaviour is challenging genuinely disrespectful and disruptive behaviour, not getting obsessed by wearing blazers when it is hot.

@Canthinkofaname79 normally I would agree but I work with varying ages of people and sadly the young adults we have starting with us have no value in appearance. They turn up to work wearing what they want, regardless of the fact it’s entirely unsuitable for the environment they are in. There seems to be something missing, late to work don’t care, look scruffy, don’t care, customer skills are non existent and they don’t care. I know that it’s not all but it’s a growing number and I’m sorry, I’m part I do think it’s because we keep making excuses about why people shouldn’t have to do things they don’t like or follow rules they don’t agree with. Life isn’t always like that.

Sounds pretty much like when I was in secondary school in the 1970s. Follow the rules or get into trouble.

I could have written this post, bar the water bottles bit. I have a SEN child in an Academy with absolutely no SEN provision in the start of year 7 and thereafter everything was just a bit too little, too late. Meetings with the school, felt as if I was in a nightclub where people nod when talking as if they agree, but probably haven’t heard half of what’s said. Either that or I was talking Klingon. It felt as if we had a year of box ticking and being told our child was fine because they were doing well academically and smiled at lunch. Whereas a year spent masking has contributed to high anxiety and depression and currently not being in school. Big hugs xxx

YANBU. I’ve no idea what they think they are preparing kids for - the only places I’ve worked where you can’t drink, or have to wear a uniform is basic retail - surely they are aiming higher than that!

In my professional work now no one wears a suit, it’s trainers in the office and it seems the higher the education the more autonomy you have - work how you like, where you like, wearing what you like. Surely that’s what they are aspiring to, finding out their best way of learning and working, the attention to uniform and rote learning is only good for the military

@RedAppleGirl actually it’s funny you mention but proper hydration levels do indeed raise IQ levels and more specifically UTIs picked up as a result of not drinking enough water would most definitely have a detrimental affect on learning. Especially in my son’s old school where nobody was allowed to use the toilet during lesson time and then of course come break in lunchtime they didn’t have time to go to the toilet with the ques so he quite literally wouldn’t piss all day you can imagine his concentration levels whilst trying to hold it in to get home.

I left school in 1990, all these rules were in place then. Not sure why it's seen as new or harsh, that's how school is!

YADNBU

DS is year 8 and is getting so stressed about the rules that he is actually dreading going to school.

He has gone from a happy, easygoing, top of the class child to stressed, angry and middling results who cries when he has to go to school - and no it certainly isn't all hormones! ( am working with the school on all this, but their inflexibility is insane. Unfortunately all other local schools seem to be the same talking to other mums.)

In fact lots of research showing being well-hydrated optimises learning, cognitive function and memory, so many schools actively promote have a water bottle on hand at all times.

Secondary schools have rules around behaviour for a reason. Just get your kid to wear a blazer and do their homework. FFS.
or consider moving to a more lax school maybe?

It's the sheer numbers of students. 330 children in DD3's year group alone. They get to have rules to get things done. DD3 has chamber choir during tutor time, one day per week. It's 15 minutes. They have 15 minutes to get in to the room, warm up, sing, then go to class. Imagine if there were all the distractions of water bottles, etc.

DD2 is now in a (specialist independent) school of 35, class of 3. Their rules are really basic and flexible because they have time to talk and discuss.

State school teachers have it tough, tbh.

I do hear lots about all these rules and regulations schools have these days and think it’s OTT.

We never had such strict rules when I was at secondary school back in the early 90’s. We had a basic uniform policy, not the pedantic rules they have now. And nobody got punished for wearing a skirt a bit shorter than was preferred. And most of us have managed to function just fine in the working world later on in life.

This is why I home educate my DC.

The rules are incredibly petty and all about delivering education on an industrial scale, not about nurturing the individual.

A local school to me has banned coats and bags so when the kids cross the road between school buildings in the rain, they’re all bedraggled. You can bet the teachers wear coats, though.

YANBU - it is absolute nonsense. Why must these rules be adhered to. How is it in the best interest of the children and their learning?

My take is this is all an exercise in ensuring compliance and conformity tbh. There are also plenty of rotten apples in teaching as there are any in all professions and power trips will of course be a plenty.

I don't know how I'm going to deal with this nonsense when my son goes to secondary school.

I didn't receive one detention in secondary school. It was an utter waste of time. Mine get so many they are meaningless. I just look upon it as an opportunity to get your home work done.
We do need rules absolutely but it's impossible to rule with sanctions

Good point made about the huge numbers and the stress on many teachers to get things done. Under high pressure to deliver nonsense like this I see why many would never go near teaching.

I don’t see why they need to drink water in class, unless perhaps during an extremely hot summer - hardly the case at the moment. They can drink before school, at break and at lunchtime.

I can easily see the school’s point - some kids will mess and fiddle with them, and there’s bound to be some spilt on books or written work.

I can remember a time when bringing water bottles into class had yet to be thought of. Nobody died of dehydration.

It's strange because my child's primary school encourage drinking water to the point they have supplied each child with their own bottle. I wonder how 30 6 year olds can possibly be handled having free access to water but 30 13 year olds can't possibly.

Absolutely. The secondary near us where my current year 6 son will be probably going is you have to ask to take off jumper but blazer has to go back on. Worst one being no coats over blazers at all. We had torrential rain yesterday and seeing some of the secondary kids at the primary meeting younger siblings they were soaked.

I think you're a bit harsh to say "schools don't do this" when you have one DS at one secondary school.

Some rules are ridiculous I agree but not all schools are crap at the things you've suggested.