To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

We responded to their email in a straightforward way and told them that we didn’t know how long in she would wear them.

Her care plan does not relate to her foot and the review date on it (when they had previously said they’d want to touch base with us) was well overdue at the point we emailed them about her foot.

The scheduled review still hadn’t happened at the point that she left the school over 9 months later despite our request. We were never in any way difficult in our interactions with the school and we were always forthcoming.

The rules at secondary schools (and I do absolutely understand why they are in place) are why I was very keen for my youngest child to get in to the grammar school. She is such a rule abider that she would have been a bundle of nerves of fear she'd get a negative point of eg too many stripes on her tie was showing. Luckily, there's no need for any of the rules at the grammar school, as the kids mostly behave anyway.

There is such a weird attitude on MN sometimes that the way the UK does things is the only possible way and it would be a complete disaster to do things differently.

And yet virtually no countries in Europe or North America have school uniforms as standard in public schools. Somehow they haven't all descended into seething pits of chaos and anarchy despite this.

So MAYBE it could be done here? Is that such a crazy idea, I mean come on

Whenever surveyed, English parents are very much in favour of school uniforms.

And that's fine. But then just say you invented them, they're all you've ever known, and you think they're splendid.

All these comments about how they're necessary because otherwise you have chaos and anarchy and kids will have no idea how to behave when they grow up, they just sound silly when you see how the rest of the world manages perfectly fine without them.

@MarshaMelrose its rare school now that has 40 minute lessons, most have 55 minutes and some around here only have three lessons a day in year 7 , they might only see the teacher once every three weeks and have to hand homework in between lessons which may be via a portal or leaving it in a pigeon hole in a part of the school they have never visited before .

Secondary teacher here. You'd be surprised how much enforcing uniform rules, classroom expectations etc contributes to overall positive behaviour. When you let those little things slide, the bigger problems start to occur. Unfortunately, when you're trying to manage behaviour in large groups of adolescents, you need to state and enforce rules that might seem unnecessary ti those outside. The no water in class rule for example; if we left our students drink water in class they literally guzzle on it all lesson, it's really disruptive. Then they need to go to the toilet frequently, which is also disruptive. If you don't like the rules, you're always free to find another school with different rules.

Hardly "the rest of the world" @dreamingbohemian . School uniform is the norm across most of SE Asia, Australia, Africa and quite a few parts of S America. I think also Russia but don't know about Crntral Asia or the Middle East.

DC1 is in Yr7. She is a well-behaved, academically able child. Since September her anxiety is through the roof because she's so worried about getting something wrong or forgetting something.

Logically, DC2 should go to the same school in a few years - convenient location, older sibling there, friends will be going. But he has ASD and a lot of sensitivities around clothes. Their ridiculously strict uniform rules will probably mean he won't be able to go there. So much for inclusion.

@Yika

Totally agree. I actually think the blazer thing is incredibly patronising and disrespectful towards the students.

They are high school students not toddlers, they’re perfectly capable of regulating their own temperature and comfort using approved uniform items.

As a university lecturer I’d suggest that secondary schools might do better to focus on critical thinking and independence skills than a system of continuing punishment designed to eradicate any opportunity for independent thought and promote a desperate culture of ‘passing exams’ at the expense of actual life or academic skills.

Here here👏

Yeah, people become teachers because they don't give a fuck. 🙄

If children have anxiety, they need to develop strategies appropriate to the situation. Having water in class isn't one. As I've said before, children can be careless and spillages on books is a pain. Some spillages are not accidental and it's another disruptive influence in the class. And those disruptions just make anxious children even more anxious.

OK. 55mins. Humans can last an hour without a drink.

....during class?"

No reason, then? 🤔

I quite like the rules, Dp and I are pleased with the standards and communication between the school, dd, and us.
She's fitted in nicely.

I’m still failing to hear anything remotely convincing.

Surely what they’re wearing under the blazers is approved uniform so is still something the school considers smart?

And as for showing respect, they show that by listening to you and participating in the lesson not by continuing to wear a blazer when they’re too damn hot. 🙄

Most office environments have coats and cardies on the backs of chairs, and we all still seem to manage to work effectively amongst the untidiness. Maybe putting a coat rack up is a less controlling solution than forcing kids to ask permission to remove blazers?

I can’t imagine having to deal with requests to remove them is an effective use of previous teaching time when they could be allowed to manage it themselves.

Of course they act up when the usual restraints are removed, because they associate that with freedom

If they never wore uniform to begin with, it would just be normal

Honestly do you think schools in other countries are all feral hellholes? Somehow they manage

You're right that I shouldn't have said 'rest of the world' in my second post. Quite a few countries that used to be part of the British Empire still have uniforms, for example.

But my initial point was looking at Europe and North America, which have schooling that is otherwise quite similar to the UK. Only the UK, Ireland and Malta have uniforms as the norm in public schools. Yet somehow all those other countries manage.

None of that's anything to do with the abritrary rules like the colour of socks though, is it? Is there evidence they learn better when overheating in a blazer?

Obviously they don't, but do those same children thrive in a school run like a prison? Probably not. Quiet anxious children being made into even quieter more anxious children terrified of setting a foot wrong. Maybe their exam results are better but their mental health is fucked. And nobody cares because pastoral care is none existent.

Yes, but are most of them in favour of them being so strict? Doubt it.

Why don't children just wear the right colour socks?

I also don't see why someone saying 'Miss, can I take off my blazer?' is such a problem?

Why does the colour of their socks matter? Why does it even need to be mandated? It doesn't!

And again, it's just pointless. They could just take it off. problem solved.