Brexit got Britain done

[katmeouws]

Thats it really.

I totally agree with every word of this.

It's classic deflection. People do something incomprehensibly stupid and somehow it's not their fault, it's the fault of everyone else because they should "be kind" while trying to stop them from trashing everything (while they were all shouting down all the evidence anyway and telling everybody to "shut up" because "we know what we're doing").

Anybody who cast their vote on such an important issue based not on the pretty much inevitable extremely negative outcome for themselves and everyone else, but based on who was nice to them, is stupid by definition.

Indeed.

I'll ask my children to remember to reflect on what wonderful Brexit Benefits they are experiencing in 2066.

Do people who voted for Brexit regret it though?

It’s really hard to know unless it’s rerun or a party puts rejoining in their manifesto and runs on it

Yes, there's quite a bit of Bregret.

If we leave it long enough, the brexiteers will literally die out.
If Labour gets a 3rd term....

The polling shift suggests some Brexit regret, yes. The trouble is good people in the electorate were lied to. They were told there would be no downside, which was a promise that should never have been made because there was always going to be a negative economic impact.

In some ways it is good that Truss got to demonstrate the type of bullshit economics the Tufton St lot peddle.

Thought I’d Google to see what was out there and it looks like Tony Blair institute has loads of data

Many think it has impacted negatively but Over two-thirds of voters think the UK should be in a closer relationship with the EU over the medium term, but only a third are in favour of the single-market type arrangement.

This is probably changeable. Starmer has ruled it out for this GE but we’ll see. I think most people would like more co operation overall. I’d welcome it for sure.

It certainly got Corbyn done.

Just came back rom France price of food and petrol food drinks has shot up
Business struggling to get enough staff
There is a war in Ukraine that has affected the whole world
It has been on the news a few times

France is not dealing with the added complications of a Frexit though are they?

Face it, Brexit was and is a disaster. A non essential headache on top of everything else.

I will never understand how Cameron thought it was reasonable to set up a Referendum that allowed 37% of the electorate to vote the UK out of the EU
There had been no discussions or guarantees on the relationship post Brexit. We had Johnson stating there would be £350m to fund the NHS, get our fishing waters back - absolute disaster. Farmers are struggling for workers, fish can't be exported and a levy was imposed to support the NHS.

We spent some time in Germany over the summer and are going back in December. We have quite a few friends and contacts there.
None of them are worried like people are here about mortgages, fuel, groceries etc and while some know the situation in Ukraine might make things more difficult they are quietly optimistic about the future

Re visiting people doesn’t that work both ways - you only get a snapshot. Eg if you’d turned up to an event we had a weekend you might go away feeling people are optimistic and not really talking about concerns.

Depends on area and the group

Although I do wonder if we get hit harder by the media and places like Germany are more sensible with reporting, at times I wonder how we keep getting through the constant headlines of gloom. Fortunately I don’t know many too impacted by that factor but it’s full on.

We weren’t visiting anyone

What do you mean? You didn’t see anyone?

I mean we didn’t go there to visit anyone specifically but spoke to lots of people when out and about. We have friends and family there who we speak to regularly but not in the area we visited so I am talking more about overall impressions from a variety of people rather than one group at one event.

Oh well same goes when family visit here. They have a great time in a thriving London and see happy people.

It’s not really the same as having conversations about the state of each country and how they feel about the future
As I said, we didn’t visit family
You seem very determined that all the German people we spoke to both before during and after our visit were lying to us, not to mention our general observations on the lack of empty shelves, infrastructure etc
But if it suits you to believe Germany is also in trouble (not sure how that makes The UK any better off) then crack on

What's interesting is that everyone who voted for Brexit still thinks strongly it was the right thing to do and those who voted remain still think they were right.

You are making things up at this point. I haven’t said they were ‘lying’, more my family get a snapshot of this country when they are here and it’s positive.

We also talk about various stuff with family who live in Germany and elsewhere so we’re quite globally spread as a family.

I do find people quite depressive on here so it’s more about that than Germany doing particularly badly.

Kent overwhelmingly voted for Brexit - only Tunbridge Wells voted to remain. A recent poll by Kent Online indicated the 72% of people think Brexit was massively harmful to Kent.

To be honest, the argument that the result of the referendum was the fault of “Project Fear” does come across as another way of saying that people are stupid and vote for what they want to believe, against all evidence to the contrary, rather than being capable of accepting a dose of reality. The Remain campaign’s problem was that the reality actually was that leaving the EU would be far worse than staying in. It would have been lying to say the EU was perfect or wonderful, so it was always going to be a campaign of fantasy thinking versus unexciting reality.

This same type of fantasy thinking versus prosaic reality seems to have persuaded Tory party members to ignore Rishi Sunak’s predictions about Trussonomics; and to have enabled countries, businesses and people to believe propaganda claiming that climate science was Project Fear for years on end.

72%? Unfortunately they realised it too late. And anyone who hasn't realised it yet, will very soon.

And voters overwhelming appointed a proven liar without values, ethics or conscience, to become Prime Minister.
Well yes and no. Most people who bothered to vote, didn't vote Conservative.

Cameron was arrogant and assumed he could get enough concessions from Merkel et al, we'd have a quick vote, remain would win and it'd be business as usual and the leavers would have to shut up - that's how he thought it was reasonable.

Cameron was on Newsnight the night before the referendum clearly setting out the benefits of remaining in the EU.