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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Brexit got Britain done

181 replies

katmeouws · 18/10/2022 22:10

Thats it really.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 19/10/2022 09:05

Ihatethenewlook · 18/10/2022 23:44

Brexit is the best thing to ever happen to us as a family

Same here, we have done well out of it for a variety of reasons.
I still voted to Remain and really wish we had.
I DO think it’s partly responsible for the mess The UK is in now, not least because since Cameron Tory cabinets have been based on how Pro Brexit you are rather than any knowledge or ability

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:07

Hoppinggreen · 19/10/2022 09:05

Same here, we have done well out of it for a variety of reasons.
I still voted to Remain and really wish we had.
I DO think it’s partly responsible for the mess The UK is in now, not least because since Cameron Tory cabinets have been based on how Pro Brexit you are rather than any knowledge or ability

The Brexit Beast requires blood sacrifices every now and then. Ultimately, you see where that gets you when all you have are yes men and the best sycophants and ideologues, and no objectively competent leaders.

Fawful · 19/10/2022 09:15

France is not in recession; some people are on strike which is inconvenient, but that's what we do in France... imagine what they would do if they had a government like Truss's causing that spike in interest rates for no good reason after being put in power by 0.2% of the population. Applying a weird plan she has no mandate for. They would actually overthrow it!
If not because we elected a corrupt politician on the back of a Brexit slogan, who then had to be replaced, then how in your opinion did we in the UK end up in this situation of facing self-inflicted austerity, with a joke PM who is no longer even governing?

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:20

Fuck those that “knew what they were voting for” or do we have compassion?

I don't have compassion for Leave voters anymore. We're six years down the line, they've seen the danger they've put the fragile peace in NI in and they don't give a shit. And as for being racist, we most (not 100%) Leave voters I know are racist, why should I have compassion for people who think anyone foreign or brown should 'fuck off home'?

Vote Leave have pretty much shut down their Facebook page but if you don't believe how racist lots of Leave voters are you should take a look at that. People even celebrating the Grenfell fire with very few descending voices. I think they had two million followers at one point. This caricature of Leave voters being racist, it hasn't come from nowhere.

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:23

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:20

Fuck those that “knew what they were voting for” or do we have compassion?

I don't have compassion for Leave voters anymore. We're six years down the line, they've seen the danger they've put the fragile peace in NI in and they don't give a shit. And as for being racist, we most (not 100%) Leave voters I know are racist, why should I have compassion for people who think anyone foreign or brown should 'fuck off home'?

Vote Leave have pretty much shut down their Facebook page but if you don't believe how racist lots of Leave voters are you should take a look at that. People even celebrating the Grenfell fire with very few descending voices. I think they had two million followers at one point. This caricature of Leave voters being racist, it hasn't come from nowhere.

And yet, most of the Leave areas were the ones that took the most immigrants. Don’t be fooled by this racist diatribe, it doesn’t reflect well.

I guess, judging by the examples on here, that all the Remainers are genuinely all PMC middle class metropolitan elites who hate that their comfy positions have been impacted by the plebs wanting change.

See, I also have anecdotal evidence to support my chosen narrative.

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:26

Fawful · 19/10/2022 09:15

France is not in recession; some people are on strike which is inconvenient, but that's what we do in France... imagine what they would do if they had a government like Truss's causing that spike in interest rates for no good reason after being put in power by 0.2% of the population. Applying a weird plan she has no mandate for. They would actually overthrow it!
If not because we elected a corrupt politician on the back of a Brexit slogan, who then had to be replaced, then how in your opinion did we in the UK end up in this situation of facing self-inflicted austerity, with a joke PM who is no longer even governing?

France is going to run out of diesel at this rate. If the Americans stop exports, then Europe is up the proverbial creek for distillate fuel.

And EdF still has strikes going on despite their nuclear fleet falling apart and not meeting the deadlines needed to ensure capacity factors are met for winter.

Just as America also sinner technically in recession, the news coming out is so bad that it’s inevitable now. Only the clueless economists who got shocked by 2008 happening are saying things are peachy.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:30

worriedatthistime · 18/10/2022 23:54

@Kendodd well pretty much the opening post is and many haven't mentioned the other issues just
Brexit
I mean come on things like a match to rejoin , to people understand that you can't just re join ffs

I know we can't just rejoin, it's up to the individual countries that make up the EU and only takes one of them to say 'no'. Far from taking back control, we gave it away. I don't think they would let us rejoin, not for at least a generation and I don't blame them. I think they would let us join the SM and CU though and this is the only sensible way forward and would solve and issue with the GFA. Of course we would though, not until there is significant public pressure to do so. Leave voters will NEVER change their minds, regardless of the cost and the country is too beholding to them. Please don't twist this to read me wishing people dead, it's not, but I do think we just have to wait for enough of them to die before we can move the country forward on that.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:36

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:23

And yet, most of the Leave areas were the ones that took the most immigrants. Don’t be fooled by this racist diatribe, it doesn’t reflect well.

I guess, judging by the examples on here, that all the Remainers are genuinely all PMC middle class metropolitan elites who hate that their comfy positions have been impacted by the plebs wanting change.

See, I also have anecdotal evidence to support my chosen narrative.

Actually, I grew up on benefits in the 1980s in one of the five most deprived areas in the country. The racists I talk about are my own family. I might have a little bit of sympathy if the area they live in had changed beyond recognition during to immigration, new shops selling food they no longer recognise and people speaking languages they don't understand, but it's not, it's also an area with very low immigration and is overwhelmingly white British.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:39

Just had a look for Vote Leave on Facebook, seems they've now removed their page completely. I guess they don't need it anymore with all the winning. Probably retired to the sunlit uplands.

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:43

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:36

Actually, I grew up on benefits in the 1980s in one of the five most deprived areas in the country. The racists I talk about are my own family. I might have a little bit of sympathy if the area they live in had changed beyond recognition during to immigration, new shops selling food they no longer recognise and people speaking languages they don't understand, but it's not, it's also an area with very low immigration and is overwhelmingly white British.

K.

Well, I grew up in t’north-west after in the late ‘80s/‘90s moving from a shithole in Germany’s equivalent, and hilariously, I met more Johnny Foreigners in West Lancashire than in my current Anglian area that’s super pro Europe. Never known anyone racist in either place, though wonder if that will change given the number of Russian speakers I hear locally. Maybe we’ll be good.

I can’t think of a more bougie and white area than where I am. And it voted Remain (and also for a clueless Tory wanting to overbuild local villages, but a little brain damage lately is to be expected).

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:45

And as for the poor downtrodden northern, plenty of the DIDN'T vote for this shitshow. I always knew they'd get the blame though, meanwhile loads of rich home counties pensioners voted Leave.

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:53

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 09:45

And as for the poor downtrodden northern, plenty of the DIDN'T vote for this shitshow. I always knew they'd get the blame though, meanwhile loads of rich home counties pensioners voted Leave.

My now well to do immigrant parents voted Leave lol

Liebig · 19/10/2022 09:55

They do also read The Daily Heil though, so… brain damage.

My dad’s youngest brother moved to London in the ‘70s and got into finance. Ask his opinion on Brexit, the results may shock you. (He loves the EU and money).

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/10/2022 09:57

I live in a rather poor, very working class constituency that has areas of prolonged deprivation. We voted Remain.

We may be poor but we weren't so stupid to vote Leave.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 10:17

Oh and the racists I know would be absolutely outraged by the very suggestion they're racist, they really genuinely don't believe they are, they just think they're right.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 10:20

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/10/2022 09:57

I live in a rather poor, very working class constituency that has areas of prolonged deprivation. We voted Remain.

We may be poor but we weren't so stupid to vote Leave.

I know, but of course, poor people will get the blame. Nobody talked about the wealthy pensioners in big houses and fat pensions who voted Leave in droves. Doesn't suit the narrative I guess.

StarfishBrain · 19/10/2022 10:21

Again, the immigration and destitution in the areas I'm familiar with was definitely a driving factor and this was well before 2016.

Neither of which were caused by the EU, so not relevant.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 10:24

And with regard the economic argument for/against Brexit. I know next to nothing about economics, I'll just go with what the overwhelming majority (90%+) of economists think. I'm not so arrogant to think that somehow someone like me knows better than I bunch of Nobel prize winners on the subject.

RamblingEclectic · 19/10/2022 10:24

It's one of many factors, sure. Like a large piece of it though it's hard to untangle from so many issues that existed before and have come up since.

I'm not sure the benefit of focusing on it, though I get the appeal.

let's just pretend because there are other external factors we can't fix also causing problems, that this one which we can do something about doesn't exist.

If you want to campaign to rejoin, you can, but beyond that, we do not have control over the effects of Brexit right now combining with dozens of other factors, some factors that pre-date Brexit and is how it became such a movement that the Tories thought the referendum was a vote winner - and were in part right.

The time Remain had something they could do about it and has passed and Remain did a shite job at it and I've not seen them improve at all.

If you don’t realise or accept that this entire shit storm started with Brexit (& being dumped with a govt that is the epitome of self serving, more than any before) then you need to get your head out the sand (polite version). Remoaners were right...

If you don't realise and accept that these problems growing and self serving governments who loved to blame the EU for all ills is how Brexit became popular enough for there to be a referendum in the first place and that the Remain campaign failed in actually discussing how they would change anything or many any improvements and relied too heavily on the status quo being good enough to win votes, then maybe you should get your head out of the sand.

I didn't have the right to vote during the Brexit campaign, I've just been taken along the ride, and I'm so fucking tired of people not recognizing that the Remain campaign has a good about of shite on their own hands that needs some reflection and change of tactics, but instead years on all I still hear is the same strategy of talking down to people and nothing of substance.

And yet (stupid) people love it and think it's the best thing ever, I see almost zero evidence of Brexit regret amongst those who voted for it.

Yeah, because the former UKIP bunch have been intelligent enough to use that so many call them "stupid" to continue to maintain support and a place in communities years on. I live in an area where all three of my councillors are ex-UKIP, they're really self serving, it's really frustrating, but the attitude locally is that all politicians are and many vote on who they see in the community, and other parties have been invisible since well before Brexit here.

Does anyone really think they're going to change anyone's mind by calling them stupid? Seriously, the continued tactic of insulting everyone who disagreed and calling them stupid has proven repeatedly to not have any benefit, it's just preaching to the choir and that isn't enough. It's frustrating that those I would politically agree with most so often fall back to such failed tactics, particularly when they're so often the ones who discuss how important language is.

StarfishBrain · 19/10/2022 10:25

Which is lower?

I can't figure out if this is a joke. You do understand that it is their relative movement that matters, do you not?

Take a look at what happened to GBP versus USD and EUR in 2016.

Eeyoresbreakfast707 · 19/10/2022 10:28

Liz1tummypain · 19/10/2022 08:13

I don't know if anyone can separate the effect of Brexit from COVID and now Ukraine. Is Europe generally in a better place ? I' d genuinely like to know.

To take two of the major players:

FRANCE have frozen gas prices until the end of the year and capped electricity at 4%. At the start of next year, electricity and gas price increases for families will be capped at 15%.

The French parliament has brought in new measures such as raising public sector pay, increasing pensions and some welfare payments by 4%, placing a cap on rent increases at 3.5% for existing tenants in mainland France, and raising means-tested student grants. It's also subsidising a rebate on petrol and diesel prices and has scrapped the TV licence.

Companies are being encouraged to offer employees an annual tax-free bonus of up to €6,000 (£5,240), raised from a previous limit of €1,000. Employees covered by the 35-hour working week will be able to convert overtime days into extra cash.

GERMANY have introduced three relief packages to cope with inflation such as: a lump sum payment of €300 for pensioners, a €300 tax rebate in September for people in regular employment, a one-time lump sum payment of €200 for university students, increases in rent subsidies to cover rising heating costs, a €500 increase in welfare payments, a one-off €100 bonus per child and a permanent €18 per child increase in monthly child benefits.

It's also shifting the income tax brackets, expanding state lending facilities to help companies, and extending a heavily subsidised public transport ticket scheme and isintroducing measures to rein in electricity prices.

I think I am right in saying that both France and Germany are re-nationalising their major energy providers (but no doubt someone will correct me on here if I've got that wrong!).

HappydaysArehere · 19/10/2022 10:29

Don’t forget the Daily Mail. The go to newspaper for those who wish to follow the herd and not do more thinking themselves. Johnson the biggest lier to have entered politics. Then the biggest lie of all that he gained the Tories a huge majority. It was gifted by Corbyn. It was an open goal.

80sMum · 19/10/2022 10:36

Don't worry folks, only 48 years left to go and then we'll all start seeing the benefits! After all, didn't JRM himself say that it would probably take 50 years?

I'll never know the outcome of this, as I'll be dead and buried decades before the 50 years are up.

Anyone who voted for Brexit and said at the time that it was worth the sacrifice, I hope you still feel that way. It's going to be a long haul - and there are no guarantees that the nation will ever be any better off than if we'd never left.

Kendodd · 19/10/2022 10:56

The time Remain had something they could do about it and has passed and Remain did a shite job at it and I've not seen them improve at all.

I hate this 'Remain did a shit campaign' argument. So what! Is that what we're basing our vote on, who put on the best show? Leave voters had access to exactly the same information Remain voters did. They chose to believe the Daily Mail instead of the experts.

And as for people voting against the countries and their own interests because somebody called them stupid on the internet, well, how would you describe that behaviour? Clever?

The scales fell from my eyes about Leave voters changing their mind ages ago, it's never going to happen, not in large numbers. If I had voted Leave I would be fucking furious with the cheats and liars who had stolen my vote from me. Leave voters aren't though, they're still 100% backing them and the only people they seem to be angry with are Remain voters.

Eeyoresbreakfast707 · 19/10/2022 11:01

HappydaysArehere · 19/10/2022 10:29

Don’t forget the Daily Mail. The go to newspaper for those who wish to follow the herd and not do more thinking themselves. Johnson the biggest lier to have entered politics. Then the biggest lie of all that he gained the Tories a huge majority. It was gifted by Corbyn. It was an open goal.

I agree that the Daily Mail and other papers and news outlets of the same ilk seem to be driving the political narrative at the moment, rather than reporting and responding to it.

And voters overwhelming appointed a proven liar without values, ethics or conscience, to become Prime Minister.