To not want my 80 year old mother to speak to me at 50 as if I am still a child

[Bretonbear]

My mother and I have never been particularly close but recently it has become a lot worse.

The thing I'm noticing more than anything is that now with her daughter as a 50 year old woman with her own children, she still texts me and speaks to me as if I am still her small child who she can control.

She texts me to say that however upset I am she is 'twice as upset'. She says that I need to let things go. She says she is disappointed in me. She says she is sorry for the things I THINK she did wrong.

Is this normal? Should she still talk to me like this? Why does she never accept blame? Why is she 'twice' as upset? What does that even mean?

I am so confused about all this and just want to know if at 50 my mother should be talking to me like this.

God I hate it when people say you'll miss them when they're gone. Said by someone who just doesn't get it one bit

I am also 50, my mother is 75, and like others I am only now beginning to recognise and come to terms with the damaging long-term effects of the dynamic of our relationship. I'm sorry that so many others have to put up with the same, but strangely also find it comforting to know that I'm not alone. I didn't know any different when I was younger.

In my mother's case she has a lot of unprocessed trauma from her childhood and young adulthood, which allows me to contextualise (if not forgive) her behaviour. I have even tried to help her deal with some of it. But sometimes I really would like her to acknowledge the consequences of how she has treated me. When I was in the mood to have it out with her a year or two ago, one of my younger brothers wisely said don't, she'll never change, just disengage (@Sparkletastic, the single most valuable piece of advice!). So that's what I've been doing. Keeping her at arm's length. Putting a few boundaries in place. Think it's possibly to do with perimenopause/falling oestrogen/not giving a fuck any more, but I have started to stand up to her a little bit. She was going off on one about something on the phone recently, and when she paused for breath I said, 'You're being absolutely ridiculous, so I'm going to have to put the phone down now.' And I did. She can never accept when she's in the wrong (which she definitely was on that occasion), so we didn't speak for about 3 weeks... then she acted as though nothing had happened.

And more recently... She always told me I was very irritable when hungry as a child. Which is possibly true! But we were out for the day and she kept on about needing to find me some lunch, because, 'you know how you get'. Previously I would have just gritted my teeth and rolled my eyes, but I thought no, I'm not putting up with this any more, so reminded her that I am in fact 50 years old and don't need anyone to manage my eating habits. She huffed for a bit – she really doesn't like anyone challenging her world view – but we got over it. And I probably deliberately went hungry that day just to prove a point!

AntsGoMarchingOneByOne · Yesterday 12:37

"She texts me to say that however upset I am she is 'twice as upset'."

Sounds very narcissistic to me.

Me too.

Have you come across the website Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers? I was almost in tears reading this list of typical comments. It was a bit of a lightbulb moment to see them all grouped together.

But it's true! You're 50! Take some responsibility if you don't like it. Mum isn't going to change is she? So you make the changes to stop it happening if its important to you

Excellent post.

Also from @BogRollBOGOF.

How does it come about? I’d stop giving her the opportunity to behave like this. So don’t tell her you are upset. Just maintain a polite relationship.

Trust me, you won’t miss her. Her death will be a relief. No one with a normal/non toxic/kind/even Ok, parent would remotely understand what I mean, since what I’ve just written is a huge taboo. And, even those of us with toxic parents, these are still our parents… and we are kind people. But nah, you won’t miss your abuser. You might miss the idea of your mother (or the idea or the mother you kept hoping she would become), but you won’t miss the actual woman, the one with the put downs and the manipulation.

@Seebee @Redrry Sorry you didn't have good relationships with your mothers. I happen to know a lot about that from personal and professional experience.
I said you will miss IT not her. I was trying to make op see the upside of this, to look at it from a different angle since it's unlikely op would be able to change her mother's ways now realistically. Sincere apologies for any upset or irritation caused. I can see why you both thought I spoke from rose tinted glasses but it really wasn't the case with my own mother or my intentions with that comment.

Sounds like Dp's dm. Not with him but with his dsis. She's not going to change but do ensure you put appropriate boundaries in place

I sympathise. My mum is like this, in her 60s and shouted at me that I'm a 'stupid little girl' the other week because I tried for the millionth time to get her to see how her constant criticism of what I decide for DD is affecting me. She doesn't give a toss and if I push the matter she will either shout at me or cry and say I misinterpret everything she says and I've always been difficult. Its toxic and horrible and I dread it continuing for the rest of her life tbh.

Sour thanks for your kind message, no offence taken. But a sincere question, since you mention that you are a professional — what “it” will the op miss?

Genuine qu, since not having my mother and “it” (which I interpret as her behaviour) in my life is unimaginably better than having her (or “it”) in my life, and I really don’t miss any of it…

having said all that, I agree with trying to find an upside to it all!!

Sorry to hear that @Bretonbear and all with difficult mothers. Mine is a bit similar. It does sound like 'management' is the way to go. I gently challenge DM sometimes these days, and I feel better for trying, even if I don't always succeed. In the past though, she would become almost hysterical when challenged, so made it not worth it. When she won't be swayed, or returns to her rather Bitter Trout World View, I just don't agree with her, and make non commital responses on the phone. One of the things that did change for DM is that DF, who had enabled/ignored pretty much all her excesses died. When she met DSdad, he doesn't enable her, so that helped. Not that anyone can change the situation in that way. Anyway, @Seebee your comments reminded me of Davina McColl's situation. She had a difficult relationship with her mother, to put it kindly, and said when her mother died it was something of a relief. I'm para-phrasing, but that was the gist. for all who need them. It's extremely hard work.

you don't miss a toxic parent when they are dead - you miss the parent you never had, the one they should have been.

’Bitter Trout World View’ is brilliant, thank you @SpongeBobJudgeyPants
My mother died 27 years ago. I don’t miss her. I am still dealing with how she made me feel growing up - unloved, useless, ugly etc.

@oldtableleg
Exactly. And I’ve missed that mother my whole life.

@Bretonbear I am in a very similar situation to you regarding ours and our mother's ages. I still get spoken to like a child and in the past I reacted like a child. It's always been a difficult relationship although she has helped me at times when I needed it.
I have reduced contact quite a bit although she lives near.
Her own mother treated her like a child until she died when she was in her 90s and my mother was in her 50s. Unfortunately my mother never stood up to her, my mother wasn't "allowed" to make her own decisions and took her frustrations out on us. She now seems incapable of making simple decisions.
My father and her had a bad relationship as well although she now tries to pretend they didn't, he passed away a few years ago.
Whenever she starts on about something now, I just cut her off or disagree with her. I have left her house when she has started being nasty which infuriates her. My other siblings don't put up with it, one has practically no contact.
I need to show my children that you can't put up with being treated that way.

My late parents weren't like this, but my ILs, particularly MIL are very much this way inclined. My MIL described DH and I as "getting quite grown up now" fairly recently. We are in our late 50s with adult children of our own! She recently had a rant at my SIL for "letting" one of her sons have a girlfriend as he is "far too young for that kind of thing". The man in question is nearly 30.
It's frustrating, but I try to let it go over my head. Nobody is going to change their behaviour dramatically in their 80s (not for the better anyway) so you're effectively banging your head against a brick wall in trying, and potentially making your last years with them even harder than they need to be.
Then there's the fact that as I start to age myself, I realise that it's a bit shit really. Shakespeare wasn't far off with his 7 ages of man thing and as they approach the later stages it's not surprising that some people want to pretend it isn't happening and to cling to what feelings of control they have left. I know that if my ILs acknowledge that their children are well into middle age and their grandchildren are adults then they have to acknowledge that they themselves are now elderly and losing some of their faculties, which they don't want to do. It's hard for those around and I am going to try very hard not to follow suit when I'm that age, but I do understand it. And it does kind of sneak up on you. I caught myself feeling slightly disapproving when I saw pictures of one of my DD's old friends on social media with her new baby earlier this year. Then I realised that she must be at least 25 now, not the teen I still have in my mind!

A mother's child will always, always be her child. However old they are.

Now that you are a fully grown mature adult, please try to make allowances for your mother's 80 years and any age-related diminishment in her own adult powers.

I'm not her kid. I am her adult daughter.

My mother has always been difficult, no matter how old she is. I think a previous poster got it right when she said those without toxic mothers will always try to recommend that those with try to make allowances. Only those who have lived this actually get it.

Not to me it isn't.

Bretonbear I absolutely agree. Those people should read and learn. And keep their unwanted irrelevant opinions to themselves. They can be smug in their own lovely relationships. Having ZERO understanding of what we go through.

They make me incredulous then exasperated. Then just plain old pissed off.

I'm genuinely intrigued to try to understand what it is I'm supposed to miss?

My mother treated me like a child all her life. Even when I was in my fifties she would still insist I could only have Clark's shoes

Thank you. Thank you for understanding what so many can't. The flippant 'get over it', 'grow up' type comments actually remind me of my mother in a way. Totally unwillingly to see things from a different perspective and happy to tell someone just to deal with it.

I've definitely witnessed the becoming hysterical behaviour when challenged. Especially lately as I'm less inclined to enable her behaviour, and after 50 years of this she is shocked that I'm not putting up with it. She hung up the phone on me this week as I asked her if she understood how her actions made me feel. She hates being called out and considers herself blameless in everything. Everything is someone else's fault. None of her children have much contact with her now and in her head that will have absolutely nothing to do with her (despite her being the common denominator).