Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

I just don't understand the utter radio silence around it - even on this thread it's been totally ignored. You'd think feminists would be all over it!

Westernised/later generation ethnic minorities are not the issue at all, but it's pretty obvious that women are second class citizens in many ME/Asian/African cultures. We need to be giving the message that we will welcome cultural diversity but not tolerate women being brutalised. Turning a blind eye isn't the solution and doesn't set a good precedent for the ethnic youths who now make up the majority of under 20s in a growing number of our cities.

I don't disagree with you about the appalling way other refugees have been treated, especially Afghans who are only in danger BECAUSE they worked for western forces. I think equating the different treatment of Ukrainian refugees with racism is simplistic though. There are loads of reasons they've been treated differently (and racism may be one of them). For a start, Ukraine is basically fighting a war against Putin for us, they are the first line of defence. Another is that the vast majority of Ukrainian refugees are women and children. Ukrainians are also expected to return, they're only given temporary shelter, other refugees need permanent resettlement.

For a start, Ukraine is basically fighting a war against Putin for us, they are the first line of defence. Another is that the vast majority of Ukrainian refugees are women and children. Ukrainians are also expected to return, they're only given temporary shelter

I agree with this although I do see the need for getting Afghan people out who helped us.

I also remember the huge outcry at gov for taking too long wrt Ukrainian refugees so that was an added pressure

I wonder if the government knows the actual size of the population in the U.K.? I hadn't really thought of it until they made it clear that people didn't need an NHS number to be vaccinated.

In fairness, I don't know whether everyone living the U.K. is meant to have an NHS number if they're legally living here. But I've read articles suggesting that the population is 5-7 million higher than the official number. Which surely makes it hard to plan public services if you don't know the number and geographic location of your population?

So WHY is this teeny tiny island "over populated"? Might it have something to do with your colonial past? Just a thought..,

@FreddyHG Be very careful here Mumsnet censors citing talk guidelines stuff even when backed up with official statistics when it shows certain ethnic groups cause disproportionately issues to their population size.

Exactly.

Rochdale Grooming Gangs ( and others) were allowed to continue for as long as they did because it appeared Police were reluctant to act for fear of being called racist.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-we-ignored-sex-abuse-of-children-hgrhc358v

It seems this mindset continues in other organisations -

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-iicsa-racist-fears-b2007649.html

news.sky.com/story/1-000-children-groomed-but-unease-about-race-meant-telford-sexual-exploitation-ignored-inquiry-finds-12650725

Absolutely. I remember have a stand up row with some women at work (well volunteering job) about it. It was the day after Kabul fell, she was saying how terrible it was but 'they can't come here, we're full up'. I was talking to a security guard about it immediately afterwards. He served in Afghanistan and in his words 'was as racist as they come' but even he agreed we should do everything we can to get people out.

@halfsiesonapotnoodle and @Sarahcoggles why do you think immigration has increased since the 50s? Why?

I also remember just after the Ukraine refugee crisis happened, loads of posters crying 'racist' and saying that there weren't loads of threads about what we could do to help Syrian or Afghan refugees. In fact there were loads of threads about helping Syrians and Afghans, I remember them and it was many of the same posters from the Ukrainian threads on those Afghan and Syrian threads. Clearly the posters crying racist had just scrolled past all those threads at the time because they were of no interest to them, they didn't care about Ukrainian refugees because they didn't care about any refugees.

I do not share their views but I can understand some people's views on this. If you are in an economically deprived area (where lots of immigrants and AS end up due to affordable, comparatively, housing) you feel like the government don't give a shit about, often having dismantled your local industry whilst not improving your access to education, alternative work, parking you on benefits and then using the media to paint you as an idle, ignorant scrounger, to cover up their own role in the shit you know find yourself in. You can't afford to access private services and you can't get your child into the only half way decent comp. or primary, your one hope that they might get out of the shit some how. you can't see a GP, yet you see lots of people here for a 'better life'. The ballot box doesn't work for you, so the non white arrivals are an easy, though unfair target to vent your frustration and helplessness.

So maybe, just maybe, those of us who aren't living in that grind and hopelessness could stop calling people who are 'racist gammon' and feeling smugly superior at arms length in our bubbles of comparative privilege and do what we can to change things and listen to their concerns and change the system. However, most of us won't because the status quo benefits us and if we were searingly honest, we don't give a fuck about them cos we're 'alright Jack' and being a champagne socialist is far more easy and comfortable than being an actual socialist.

I think there's more nuance to it - most people probably don't mind and would even welcome immigration for e.g Oz, New Zealand, Canada, the US; where it all becomes very sticky is when you talk about Africa and the Middle East. I think people will shout scream and cry about public services dwindling as a cover for their racism, conveniently forgetting that gov has been gutting public services like it's a fun sport.

Posted too soon but in short - people's attitude towards you are largely shaped by your colour. It's hard but it is what it is.

@PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog - bang on.

Ron de Santis (governor of Florida) flew a few of the many refugees / illegals that land on his shores up to ultra liberal , ultra affluent Martha's Vineyard. The locals were up in arms in no time at the relatively small number. It has become their issue to deal with rather than someone else's!!!

Also worth noting that not all resentment of immigration is from the indigenous population. An Asian community in the Midlands were complaining bitterly a few years back about a surge in Roma numbers. There's quite a bit of Asian - Black racism as well

In 1955 the population of the Uk was 51 million, now its approaching 68 million. That’s a huge increase , with implications for nature and wildlife . But also for quality of life, with increased density comes more pollution and pressure on services. Also infrastructure is not keeping up. Near me, water extraction to manage huge population increase and demand, has led to shortages. Of course We need some immigration, but it doesn’t feel like a community any more where I live. Different groups have their own social places and live quite separately.

As for people arriving on small boats, well frankly, I'm surprised we don't see more of it. Not just in the UK but in all richer countries. Even if not fleeing war and they just want a better life, so what, I don't blame them. They see what we have (or rather what they think we have and actually have no idea about the levels of poverty in the UK). If you're from a poor African country with few opportunities, why wouldn't you think 'hang on a minute, how come you have so much and I have so little ' (imo poor people in the west could to with looking at the super rich and thinking that themselves). Why shouldn't they rock up on our shores wanting to know where their share of the world's wealth is?

I don't know what the solution is though, I don't think small boat migrants is a good thing, but i don't know how to stop it. I don't like the Rwanda idea. I actually think it would work though, similar solution worked in Australia. Shooting them all dead on arrival would also work pretty quick as well, doesn't make it right though.

I've never understood the 'they put too much burden on services argument'. independent study after independent show that migration is of net economic benefit (put more into the system than they take out) yet services are stretched. Convenient that the government blame the migrants rather than their lack of administrative prowess.

What an odd wishful thinking and fanciful response!

No, the neighbours who are coming to share the pie are not bringing their own pie.

I don't have the resources to make more pies and even if I did, I don't have the time to rustle up more pies in the short period of time it will take them to walk along the street to my house.

So, I can't magic up more pie, they aren't bringing any pies with them so we are all sharing the pie that was originally meant for four, six at a push.

That means that instead of six of having a reasonable slice, there will now only be crumbs for everyone.

This is true also. Realistally the UK isn't going to have have expats here if it isnt more beneficial to the whole Country but they are happy to show the other side of people draining resources.

I watched a very informative doc regarding visas and there were various types costing thousands probably the type with parents that send their kids to private schools.

What an immature comment.

It seems very easy to trangress the racism bar nowadays,

I have never liked John, He kicked me up the arse and lied to my boss about me.

Is John black?

Yes.

Then you are a racist!!!!

***

There are too many old white people using up resources.

Isn't that racist?

No because they are white.

Absolute rubbish to those saying we lost lots of highly skilled workers due to brexit! I work for the NHS and we lost lots of unskilled workers on shit pay and the same goes for the hospitality sector! The reason these jobs can't be filled is because the wages are a joke and British people simply can't live on them! Most of the europeans i worked with who left after Brexit were living in house shares and saving the majority of their wages or sending them home. Their bills were nowhere near as high as the average British person who is running a home. The highly skilled workers i work with are all still here ( paramedics, doctors, nurses) because they can afford to live here! The unskilled jobs are not being filled because no British person is going to slog their guts out for 40 plus hours a week to not be able to pay their bills at the end of it! Both NHS and Hospitality are bloody hard work and long hours! Blame the government and the sectors that offer low pay for people not brexit, immigration or racism!

👏 ..and when you're told black people can't be racist, you get the good old white people are the oppressors argument. Tell that to the Equality Act 2010 because I'm still waiting to see where white people are excluded from race, as a protected characteristic!

Don’t people also migrate out of this country so it evens out?
what we need to do is equip and invest in people who come into this country as refugees with the skills they need to contribute economically.

Also all those blaming the " bloody tories" the reason employers can get away with paying unliveable wages is because they know the government has to step in and hand over tax credits or universal credit to enable people to live! Who introduced this? Tony Blair and Labour!!!!

You will never get any sense out of the lefties. Try pointing out where Labour have gone wrong and you get the pile on. It happens on every baiting thread, similar to this one. Never any reasoning. Just shrieking emotion, with insults.