Page 27 | Are people that want zero immigration racist?

equalstime · 2022-10-15T21:31:59+00:00

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right? There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility? Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

TreadLight · 20/02/2023 19:20

happyfishcoco · 15/10/2022 23:26

ask Boris Johnson where is the extra £350 million a week to spend on the NHS?

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I thought I'd check this, just for laughs. The last year that Britain was in the EU was 2019/20, health spending in England was £137.4 billion.

2022/23 was forecast at £152.6 billion.

This is about £292 million a week, so not a million miles away from the £350 million Brexit dividend promised!

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Florenz · 20/02/2023 19:33

Kabalagala · 20/02/2023 19:02

Thats not true though. The government keeps house prices high by design. They don't want cheaper housing.

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Yes but the design includes high immigration which keeps house prices high. Where do you think all the immigrants who have come here in the last 20 years are living? And who would be living in those houses if there hadn't been such high immigration?

Valeriekat · 20/02/2023 19:44

PutYourShoesOnWereLate · 15/10/2022 22:50

If we are going to provide care then we need to encourage immigration. Our population is ageing and cannot care for itself.

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So people come here with the sole intention of caring for our frail and elderly and earning minimum wage? Is that what you think?

That is racist and patronizing and so far isn't happening.

Kabalagala · 20/02/2023 19:45

Florenz · 20/02/2023 19:33

Yes but the design includes high immigration which keeps house prices high. Where do you think all the immigrants who have come here in the last 20 years are living? And who would be living in those houses if there hadn't been such high immigration?

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I'm not of the opinion that migration has anything to do with house prices. House prices have been propped up for decades, without migrants we'd just have built even fewer houses with the same outcome.

Mira28 · 20/02/2023 20:43

Volver · 20/02/2023 17:31

@Mycatsgoldtooth Full disclosure
I’m an immigrant, by chance rather than design, as I married a Brit 31 years ago. Never intended to stay in GB, but stay I did because at the time I was happy and it made sense and for 40 years I did and that’s nearly all my working life.

We have grown up British born kids.
I’m writing from my house in Spain.
I’m a High Rate tax payer and have never taken a penny from the state, even though I’m many years shy of the shabby Estate pension age I already qualify with 38 years+ NI contributions. I even have private health care so when I’m back in GB in my own place I don’t need to rely on GP surgeries.
I feel most sorry for my kids who live there and I’m trying to persuade them to up sticks even though it’s their home country and their choice as young adults. I just don’t see a future for them there until people stop being so bloody stupid, and start voting responsibly instead of swallowing right wing propaganda.

I got so FED UP with the sheer audacity of brexiteers assuming I’m some kind of scrounger by virtue of my faint foreign accent that I have basically Given Up on GB. My heart broke when I realised half the population I came across in daily life had this low opinion of anyone foreign born.
I don’t have to put up with that shite so now the Spanish economy benefits from my taxes.

My solution would be go cap in hand to the EU and restore free trade and FOM but unfortunately on vastly less advantageous terms (like Norway) and get the economy moving again and highly skilled Europeans moving again to help with cultural cohesion and yes, give young Brits opportunities to study and work in Europe too.
Impose controls just like the rest of Europe has always done: The EU was never a “free for all” so people can look for a job but need to pay for healthcare the first year at least till they’re employed and contributing with their NI/taxes. No free social housing to anyone not working and contributing.

GB was really raking it in in prestige and economic growth as part of the EU.
Vote for a more socially conscious Govt that will invest in public services.

I do hope people realise Brexit was such a crazy foolish thing that at least restoring free trade will reverse the worst damage yet to come.
The immigration numbers from Europe would balance themselves quite fast as it’s the law of supply and demand. When there’s no work a lot of the young people simply leave.
Hell, even the long term ones with British passports like me have, so there’s nothing to fear.

The vast majority of EU workers are young so not a strain on public services
Culturally similar so less problems with language and integration into society
They contribute more than they take out
The ones that stay and settle for good will make a lasting contribution to society
There’s a shortage of workers in GB: unless you force all the working age natives (and they number millions) to get off their arses and work you need the workforce to tend to the old, the sick, to contribute to Science, and yes to even pick crops from the fields…

The Asylum/Refugees question is separate and should be comprehensively addressed with offering safe routes to claim in collaboration with the UN and Europe.

As a fellow EU immigrant in the UK I understand how you feel about the Brexit vote. At the same time, living where I currently live I can also understand those who wanted more control over immigration, including immigration from the EU.
Our town is very similar to how @Mycatsgoldtooth described the area where she lives - „lots of multiple occupancy housing, lots of crime and antisocial behaviour caused by the people living here who have arrived in the last five years“.
Sadly, all of this also applies to our town - unlike your statement about EU workers being culturally similar to the British and therefore having less problems with language and integration into the society. I‘m not saying your statement is generally untrue, I‘ve encountered plenty of people like that myself.
But it’s just not the case in our town - there are many EU immigrants here who seem to be living in a parallel world - many don‘t speak English, large groups of men gathering on street corners and in the town centre, blocking the pavements, and glaring if you want to pass, teenagers harassing passers-by, loads of shoplifting (I’m sure Brits shoplift to, but I know several business owners and they all have had issues with the „newcomers“ in the last five years or so).

Florenz · 20/02/2023 21:02

Kabalagala · 20/02/2023 19:45

I'm not of the opinion that migration has anything to do with house prices. House prices have been propped up for decades, without migrants we'd just have built even fewer houses with the same outcome.

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But there have been far more immigrants than there have been new houses built. Not to mention all the houses that previously would have housed one family being turned into "HMOs".

Lndnmummy · 20/02/2023 21:07

Volver · 20/02/2023 13:19

It seems to me that native born Brits are imploding through lack of public services resources brought on by their votes eg
Brexit
Successive Tory Governments
aided and abetted by the right wing media owned by the powerful who couldn’t give a stuff about the general population

It is racist and xenophobic to say it’s immigration causing the strain on public services like the NHS, education, housing, etc. Basically blaming and othering people in the minority, but who contribute more in net taxes to the well being of a nation than the native born population.
Yes there are always a minority of scroungers but in the vast majority immigrants contribute more per capita, and in many cases are better educated than the native population .

Read the Stats migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/

The other thing that makes me laugh is the very people who voted for Brexit have now shot themselves in the foot as EU nationals contributed more per capita to the economy than their non EU equivalents and culturally and due to historical ties had a huge amount more in common with Brits (including ethnicity which matters a lot to the racists who wanted Brexit) than immigrants from other parts of the globe.

They also voted to restrict their own freedom of movement to work and live in many lovely European countries.
Thats a direct result of ignorance and xenophobia. You couldn’t get more stupid if you tried.

Most of the comments on this thread blaming immigration for the mess GB is in are ignorant at best, racist and xenophobic in most cases too.

I couldn't agree more

Daisybuttercup12345 · 20/02/2023 21:10

HannibalHeyes · 15/10/2022 22:52

Basically, it's the little Englanders and Brexshitteers that keep shouting for zero immigration. So, yes, they're racists, and should always be shouted down as such.

What a ridiculous comment.

Mira28 · 20/02/2023 21:11

Lentilweaver · 20/02/2023 18:54

But those are 'good immigrants'. With skills. Not bus drivers or care workers or Deliveroo workers. And they have 'assimilated'.

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What’s wrong with assimilation? And I‘m saying this as an immigrant.
Some immigrants do their best to integrate, others won’t even try. Why are locals not allowed to say that while they have no issues with some immigrants, they struggle with the attitude/ the behavior of others? I don’t think it’s always just about jobs/ skills, it‘s also about how immigrants interact with their hosts.

Kabalagala · 20/02/2023 21:13

Florenz · 20/02/2023 21:02

But there have been far more immigrants than there have been new houses built. Not to mention all the houses that previously would have housed one family being turned into "HMOs".

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Yes but, since the housing market is propped up by managing supply, if the demand was lower, the supply would also be lower. If less people were coming in, we'd have less houses. It's a deliberate shortage, and deliberately expensive and entirely separate than migration.

Florenz · 20/02/2023 21:20

But we can't keep building more houses forever. Sooner or later the population has to be capped. It might as well be now.

Forgooodnesssakenow · 20/02/2023 21:24

SwordToFlamethrower · 15/10/2022 22:55

My dad voted brexit, hates brown/black people and used to be in the BNP.

His dream was to "send them all back where they came from".

Thankfully he is locked up in a high security dementia home now. With brown and black women caring for him.

I hope they spit in his tea!

Used to spit in my dad's coffee. Not sorry. Just some shit dad solidarity there.

MarshaBradyo · 20/02/2023 21:26

Just thinking about the posts for and against should there be a year when the population stops going up?

In the U.K. and just generally

woodhill · 20/02/2023 21:35

Yes why can't we try for a while and sort everything out here first

Make sure everybody is employed as much as possible

clear housing lists

Notanevillandllord · 20/02/2023 22:21

As a landlord some of my tenants are immigrants - mainly Polish.

9 years ago when Romanians and Bulgarians were able to live here my Polish tenants were really cheesed off. They didn't want them undercutting them. They'd established themselves here, had families and couldn't live 10 to a house like they did when they first arrived and knew that's what the new arrivals would do.

Was my tenant racist or just trying to protect his livelihood?

Also I'm reading about how we need more immigrants to work in hospitals/care homes etc what are the 9 million people who've arrived here since 2000 are doing? Genuine question. Have we been receiving the "wrong" type of immigrants if they're not fulfilling the needs of the country. We have more builders/hospitality staff/ etc when really we needed more nurses/doctors/care workers.

For reference I voted remain, am not white and have an immigrant parents.. I think we should be allowed to question/discuss what we see.

tuttifritti · 21/02/2023 06:52

Racist probably but naive and ignorant definitely because that is an unworkable and unappealing prospect where you would lose any semblance of talent and create a huge brain drain.

SerendipityJane · 21/02/2023 07:47

MarshaBradyo · 20/02/2023 21:26

Just thinking about the posts for and against should there be a year when the population stops going up?

In the U.K. and just generally

3 best ways to reduce population are:

disease, famine, and war.

VeryUnstableGenius · 21/02/2023 07:57

Forgooodnesssakenow · 20/02/2023 21:24

Used to spit in my dad's coffee. Not sorry. Just some shit dad solidarity there.

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This is gross. Why would you spit into someone’s tea over disagreements?

If he was abusive you shouldn’t be even going close enough to spit in his coffee anyway

MarshaBradyo · 21/02/2023 08:29

SerendipityJane · 21/02/2023 07:47

3 best ways to reduce population are:

disease, famine, and war.

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It’s not so much about the ‘best’ as they are the most destructive.

Wondering if people think there should be a peak to a population or it should continue to rise

SerendipityJane · 21/02/2023 08:36

It’s not so much about the ‘best’ as they are the most destructive.

Depends on your point of view. I don't think the human genome gives two shits. The horror of evolution, is that it can't be gamed. Much like the terminator ...

It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead!

Because the alternative is extinction. As 99% of everything that has ever lived on earth has discovered.

You can dress that up in whatever claptrap you like. But like putting pom poms on a leopard, you won't change the spots.

MarshaBradyo · 21/02/2023 08:39

It’s not about dressing it up.

It’s just neutral question re numbers. Up then down, could expand again

Or do people envisage always rising population in U.K. / world

Lentilweaver · 21/02/2023 08:49

Population rates are actually falling across the world, aren't they? I can't Google and find stats at the moment, but I do know they are falling sharply in India as more women become educated.

SerendipityJane · 21/02/2023 09:06

Does anyone learn about Malthus anymore ?

MarshaBradyo · 21/02/2023 09:10

Maybe I did can’t recall.

Lentil yes I think so, not sure about global but it will decline as women are more educated

People seem committed to population growth but at some point would they say ok this is about where we are ok to reduce rather than implement measures to keep growing

In the U.K. and / or globally

SerendipityJane · 21/02/2023 09:26

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

Of course there are very good reasons for wanting it to be wrong. But history won't support them.