Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

@Beecham As for the channel asylum seekers - quite frankly if you've managed to travel here from half way across the globe from a war torn country, then good on you!! You are likely to be a very resourceful and dynamic person, which is exactly what the economy needs!

The naivety is breathtaking !

Resourcefulness is brilliant if you're a good person who wants to abide by the law.

No because your neighbours would bring their own pies so the lunch would just be bigger.

@bingbummy tell me you’ve never had any dealings with the criminal justice system, without telling me you’ve never had any dealings with the criminal justice system

I agree. This comment is literally vile.

@HairyMcLarie thank you, that's exactly what I mean. You have to jump through hoops! I just wonder whether anyone has thought that these countries and their conditions are racist as I don't think it would depend on the race/ethnicity of the person but more what they can bring to the country. I feel like if we did anything similar in the UK there would be uproar about it although it seems to help places like Australia/NZ from what I've seen

@Gwenhwyfar swap that pie analogy for stealing catalytic converters, nicking anything left in the garden for more then five minutes. having all night parties, burning rubbish in your garden and it’s the generous meal we are living with.

I’m not getting why the poster added white - if the proportion changed the issue would still exist

What?

To call those racist who wanted some controls on immigration is what enabled Brexit in the first place. The people to blame for Brexit are the enlightened ones who feel morally superior for thinking all immigration is good and that anyone questioning it must be racist. Congratulations, gun, foot, prefect shot.

I don’t think there are many people who believe in 0 immigration. Maybe only some extreme right wing nut jobs in small numbers. On the contrary, on the left it is a prevalent view that you must not question immigration at all, everyone coming on a boat is a genuine asylum seeker and many will not hear a word against mass migration, they simply want open borders. This is the attitude that is most harmful because it’s not on the fringes like the 0 immigration ones. It’s mainstream.

We need some low skilled migration and we need lots of high skilled workers. But the left have made it an impossible topic to talk about rationally by calling the opposing side racist.

Our immigration system isn't fit for purpose. That doesn't mean people want zero immigration.
You need to look at the system as a whole. People who make it to the UK spend too long waiting to find out if they can stay. Checks and balances on who people are and why they came, are patchy. Our shoddy system encourages people trafficking which funds organised crime, channels women and DCs into prostitution, and puts many people's lives at risk.
There is a global refugee crisis and it needs a global response.
Somewhere the UK fell into a trap of framing any conversations about refugees or immigration as racist - the result of that is that the system can't be discussed or reformed or improved.
The squeeze on infrastructure and resources is another issue although it sits alongside it for many people. Again, government policies have led to breakdowns in infrastructure and insufficient services.
When you have politicians who have no principles, change policy depending on polls and ultimately feel responsible to wealthy donors (not the electorate) you end up with systems that don't work.

I don't know anybody who wants zero immigration so the premise of the thread is probably off.

What many people want though is controlled immigration - they see things like the daily shitshow in the channel and headline net immigration numbers and are concerned about overcrowding in inner cities and the effects of a rapidly rising population on the provision of public services such as housing, health, education and transport.

Nearly all western European countries have demographic problem with the "native" population not having children to meet replacement rate and immigration fills some of the gap. All also have aging populations.

Is wanting to restrict immigration racist - in a word no. Concerns tend to be over cultural issues and how well people can fit into society - we have all seen that some cultural issues (by no means all) have developed over the decades of increased immigration and one of society's challenges is how to address that without alienating or marginalising sections

I absolutely agree that there are a lot xenophobic/racist individuals about, but on the other side of the coin, I find it odd how people have a wilful tendency to ignore worrying trends when the perpetrators are of an ethnic minority. I can only assume it's due to a perhaps misguided desire to avoid racial profiling.

1200 sexual assaults in one night is perhaps the biggest inidividual instance in recent European history. Meanwhile, Germany’s Office of Police Crime Statistics (PCS) acknowledged that 'asylum-seekers represented an above-average share (9.7 percent) of all suspects in cases of “rape, sexual coercion, and sexual assault in particularly serious cases including those resulting in death', which is worrying when you consider they constitute approximately 1% of the total German population.

This.

It's not racism.

I suspect you don't understand because you are woke lefty. People are equally against white migration as seen to the reaction to seasonal workers here in East Anglia.

Be very careful here Mumsnet censors citing talk guidelines stuff even when backed up with official statistics when it shows certain ethnic groups cause disproportionately issues to their population size. Unless of course white males in which case crack on and blame them for everything.

The issue you describe is the services have failed to scale with population increase, it is a government issue.

Health care is such that life expectancy now means the population will always increase, until a limit is imposed on total children allowed. So rather than worry the country is full (when it is mostly green space) the question is how do we house and support a growing global population

I used to think they were racist, and I think shutting people down like that is part of the reason Brexit won. Some people are racist, but a great many more have been let down by successive governments not responding to changing needs of the population. If it was easier to see your GP, get appropriate healthcare, send your dc to a school with a smaller class size, get whatever help you need, or even park safely outside your dc school then immigration wouldn't be perceived as such a threat.

I should think most people (particularly in the cities) know immigrants as friends, work colleagues, their children's friends and so on and these are people they see in day to day life who are striving for a better life just like most of the rest of us.

What people also see though is the preponderance of immigrant groups in some crimes like people trafficking, child rape, terrorism and so forth

The clearest sign I’ve seen recently that reveals how racist Britain is how one set of migrants (Ukrainian refugees) have been treated compared to other migrants from other countries who are in similar positions.

On the whole the government, media and population of the UK have been welcoming to Ukrainians fleeing the war. Not to mention the Ukrainians flags flying from every council building, and on your random relative’s Facebook page.

But similarly horrific wars and disasters are happening in so many other places - Afghanistan, Yemen, Haiti etc. But these horrific things are happening to non white, often non-Christian people. Afghans who actually worked for the Uk govt in Afghanistan and are at serious risk are put at the back of the queue behind blond Christian Ukrainians. That’s racism, pure and simple.

No it isn't. Or at least that's not the UN definition of racism.

www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/international-convention-elimination-all-forms-racial

Wanting zero immigration is probably racist but is most certainly comprehensively stupid. Anyone with such an opinion should be forced to read a book. Or two. Ineffably dim.

To nip these comments in the bud: asylum seekers do not need to seek asylum in the first safe country they reach. They haven't needed to do that since the 1951 Refugee Convention.
If you were seeking asylum, wouldn't you want to go somewhere you might already have a relative or friend? If there was a European war, would you be happy for the population of France to come to the UK or would you expect some to go elsewhere? That said, a lot of asylum seekers do go to a neighbouring country. Turkey currently has the most. 38% of asylum seekers are in only five countries (the UK is not one of them).

It's important to note the difference between asylum seekers, displaced people, refugees, illegal immigrants and immigrants. I think a lot of people complain about immigrants, when what they actually have a problem with is illegal immigrants.

Over recent years, the number of people moving to the UK from overseas has been higher than the number who leave, but foreign-born people still only make up 9% of the UK population.

Are they taking our jobs? No, they are not "our" jobs to take. The best person for the job will get it, if that is someone moving from overseas then they bring something UK candidates cannot offer. You could argue that successive governments have failed the UK education system in that sense.

Are they taking medical attention? Again, since they only make up 9% of the population, no. I have to wait two weeks for a GP appointment, I waited 18 months for an operation. That, again, is the government historically and persistently underfunding the NHS. It's not because immigrants are clogging the system.

Are they taking our houses? There is a problem with foreign buyers in the housing market, but these tend to be non-UK resident buyers of expensive properties.

Where is the burden on resources and facilities coming from? The UK population as a whole has increased. We are healthier and wealthier, our children survive infancy and we live longer. In the old days babies died often, children too, average life expectancy was lower. Then the world wars killed a significant number. But then penicillin was introduced, water was cleaned to drink, the NHS was developed.
In 1950 the population was just over 50 million and its increased by around a million every 3-4 years averagely. Foreign migrants make up a tiny fraction of that total number.

To answer your first question, "are people who want zero immigration racist?" Some of those people, yes, will have racist motives. We saw clear demonstrations of those race and ethnicity prejudices around the brexit referendum in some people.
Others may not be racist but may not understand that the burden on our resources, infrastructures, services, is from ourselves, not from immigrants.

As a country, we could not manage on zero immigration, it's just not feasible.

I am a UK citizen who works abroad. I call myself an expat because the only reason I am in another country is for work purposes. I have no intention of permanently leaving the UK and settling elsewhere.

We do not have enough doctors, nurses or teachers, no. Have you seriously missed this?

There are also plenty of gaps in IT and other skilled professions.