Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

Japan has been a test case in shrinkonomics as a result of an aging population and low immigration.

Unlike Britain, Japan has a tradition of strong family care for older people whereby adult children look after dependent elderly parents by taking them into their homes and providing for them and caring for them.

In Britain, what will happen the elderly when there aren't enough workers to pay pensions and provide care. Many in Britain are barely able to provide for themselves and their families and aren't in a position to take care of elderly relatives.

who said it was only a UK problem? nonetheless it's a problem here.

It was you that inniated the problem whilst ignore the globalised economy.

house price growth above all else has fucked the economy so I'm not sure why people would want more of that.

Well on top of introducing working tax credits which led to an increase in zero hour contracts for the magic hours that has contributed to the gig economy, good luck thinking that any government wants to be in charge when house prices crash, MN flipped on a coin during the last election, fully pro corbyn 1000 posts deep until he proposed those earning above ~80k as to pay higher taxes, despite the MN meme at that time of 'openly want to pay higher taxes to fund services' was suddenly inundated with how 80k isn't that a great wage,.

Of course it's brain drain just like Australia trying to entice doctors from here over there. However I'm ok with it when it means I see a GP or get my operation.

Perfect neolib response, I wish many of the FBPE crowd would be so open.

I hope labour will get into power but I don't see things shifting too much re immigration . Personally I favour a radical overhaul of the tax system & would introduce some form of wealth tax, no one will vote for that though!

It will, nordic countries who we was compared against as being inferior during the 2015 migrant crisis has shifted, it is no longer xenophobic/racist by default and ironically some countries are looking at a Rwanda situation, the fact Labour are going to be in power when we follow means the online narrative will change.

As for wealth tax, there are many cosy middle class labour heartlands that are opposing house building on brown field sites, so even labour voters have an I'm alright attitude.

We don't need more houses, we need fewer people. Building more houses just kicks the can down the road for a few years, the houses fill up and there's a shortage again. We can't build an infinite number of houses, we are a country with finite space and resources.

I doubt it's just the British. It's human condition. I'm also of Italian descent we also suffered discrimination but the vast majority of British people are welcoming and fair. Our grandparents left their countries because they wanted a better life, they worked hard and were not entitled . The Uk gave them that better life and here we are, assimilated and proud to be Anglo Italian.

We certainly need more workers whether they be 'home grown' or immigrants.
However, we need people with skills not a continual stream of anonymous people who we can't evaluate coming over the Channel every day.

Unless this government gets a grip on the situation we risk becoming a dumping ground for criminals that the rest of Europe don't want.

Maybe but not necessary. They might be lots of things.....selfish, greedy, self-centred, unaware of the benefits of immigration, worried about jobs, worried about resources, worried about taxes, they might be uneducated - that does not necessarily mean they have a problem with people because of the colour of their skin. Just a lazy sweeping generalization IMO.

Not necessarily that should say

Yes! Let’s make up for “centuries of plundering the colonies” by stealing medical staff. 🤦‍♀️ I’m disappointed (although not shocked) by that Ghana report - and I say disappointed because I’ve had similar suspicions for years and I’m not ok with it.

Ironically someone on this thread said she “didn’t care” (about Ghana et al) as long as she herself can get a medic - oh yeh, she’s all for immigration.

ALL western economies are in decline - and I firmly believe we need to fix from within. We need to train our own medics - not steal from countries who so desperately need them themselves.

we need to accept a lower standard of living - rather than engage in Ponzi-style population growth which fucks over our descendants.

“wah wah wah there’s nothing on the shelves in Waitrose”. Well toots, you wanted the farmland built on.

Anyway, my point is - I will NEVER be ok taking medical staff from women (I honestly care less about men) in Ghana just so I can pat myself on the back and claim the “right side of history”. Happy to be on the wrong side and content with my morality.

good luck thinking that any government wants to be in charge when house prices crash,

I don't think any government wants that. I don't understand why people want ever increasing house prices, it's a major reason for our low productivity. That's a reason why things won't change, we haven't invested in young people & now it's too late to change, which is my point.

Perfect neolib response, I wish many of the FBPE crowd would be so open.

I'm not a neoliberal I'm just realistic. And it's exactly what my parents did, why would I have an issue with it? If you live in London a huge number of the NHS are 1st or 2nd gen immigrants. Why do you think we have the workers to replace them?

and I firmly believe we need to fix from within. We need to train our own medics - not steal from countries who so desperately need them themselves.

It's a great soundbjte but unfortunately saying something doesn't make it happen. The above requires money & investment.

we need to accept a lower standard of living - rather than engage in Ponzi-style population growth which fucks over our descendants.

young people have already seen a decline in standards of living & are facing increased retirement ages despite no increase in healthy life expectancy. How low should standards of living be?

@hoardod

"If you live in London a huge number of the NHS are 1st or 2nd gen immigrants. Why do you think we have the workers to replace them?"

Well according to this the NHS is doing just that -

www.england.nhs.uk/2022/08/tens-of-thousands-of-people-sign-up-to-careers-in-the-nhs/

@Captiancorrellistuba have you actually read the article you have linked?

Yes.

I don't get your point?

@Captiancorrellistuba are you just agreeing with me then? I'm not sure why you replied to my point about huge numbers of NHS staff in London being 1st or 2nd gen immigrants & we don't have the workforce to replace them?

The article quotes "Health and Social Care Secretary Steve Barclay said: “Boosting domestic and international recruitment is vital for our efforts to prepare the NHS "

Then it quotes Ridwan "I come from Nigeria"

I'm not sure why you think the status quo has changed?

Not to mention that 35k jobs is a drop in the ocean when you look at social care & NHS vacancies plus we all know there is retention issue.

It was a general response addressing falling NHS numbers across the board, not just NHS workers in London.

but i'm confused why you responded to my post? Have the NHS stopped recruiting abroad?

Here is another initiative to increase NHS staffing levels;

www.gov.uk/government/news/action-to-bolster-nhs-workforce-and-retain-senior-doctors

There apparently 190k vacancies.

is

Not at all.

www.england.nhs.uk/london/2022/06/22/the-capitals-nhs-supports-refugees-to-become-doctors-with-medical-support-worker-role/

Heres another one

www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-recruitment-fund-for-the-adult-social-care-sector/international-recruitment-fund-for-the-adult-social-care-sector-guidance-for-local-authorities

We are also increasing our own training of medics, although the results will take a while to show

www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/medical-school-interview/nhs-hot-topics/the-five-new-medical-schools/

yes which was my point we don't have enough workers currently & I'm not convinced we won't ever not need overseas workers.

@hoardod (and others) - I’m delighted to read of new medical schools.

“oung people have already seen a decline in standards of living & are facing increased retirement ages despite no increase in healthy life expectancy. How low should standards of living be?”

There is (imo) no arbitrary standard. But, as with all choices in life - there are consequences.

I’ve been an immigrant elsewhere and was stunned when I returned to the uk to see just how much “stuff” the British have. Consumerism is not “standards”.

But it leads me on to my next point (environmentalism) - I’d rather keep my petrol fiesta on the road than have the blood of African children mining for battery components on my hands.

Each and every one of us makes choices which are best for us and our families. You need only take a glance at the property board to see that (current thread Blackheath/Eltham). Doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge the consequences even if we don’t like them spoken out loud.

life isn’t black and white- and successive governments have kicked this can down the road for generations - and well, the gig is nearly up.