Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

Interesting that your posting history spans all of one day. Stop trying to stir up race hate

Op, my grandparents were immigrants and horrifically abused,one of my grandfathers was brutally assaulted due to it. We are of Italian descent. “Dirty itI” was the term Brits like to shout at them. They were shunned.

they became wealthy, very respected in their community, now no one abuses you as you’re Italian descent.if anything it’s seen as cool. That’s what close to a century and the eu does,

Britain will always have a fear of immigrants, it’s nothing new.it’s being going on best part of a century now, it appalls and saddens me, but no way round the fact it’s an inbred reaction some have. This is nothing new. As said, best part of a century ago, the same racist shit was happening. The only thing that changed is the nationalities Of rhe immigrants.

but make no mistake, British people have always been guilty of this.

Would it be any different in a another country in those times

I'm a 2nd gen immigrants born & raised in London. I didn't know anyone who wasn't 2nd gen until I went to uni. My part of London has always been very diverse, I don't know anything else.

Looking ahead, as the climate changes and becomes unpredictable there will be countries in the world where it becomes impossible to live. People will be forced to leave their homes, millions of them. It won't be about choosing where's nicest, it'll just be about survival - for every one of us. It's a problem the whole world is going to have to face up to. 😥

The OP is calling people racists, and certainly isn't alone in that viewpoint.

Maybe I haven't been clear. It's true that immigration has been set up dodo as you say. However, it is also true that:

a) Part of the reason they have made that choice is because it suits those who want to keep social costs low and wages depressed. It is the easy cheap solution that makes things like effective union action difficult and depresses wages at the lowest level.

Other options might include things like better supporting training, increasing productivity through research, possibly increasing mothers in the workforce, or actually biting the bullet and looking at how to slowly make an economy smaller. This is a very difficult solution, and new ground. But probably will have to be faced in the end anyhow.

b) But what is more maddening is that these issues - movement of labour, protection of industry, unions - these are traditionally the things the left have embraced or recognized as important to protect workers. They have utterly abandoned them, and in fact claim that they are far-right ideas.

There are lots of people in the current "left" parties who really think that concerns about movement of labour are racist and fascist. Their thinking is - Racist supported Brexit - Brexit was concerned about movement of labour/housing/etc - therefore these concerns are racist. Or - Trump aid he would protect the auto industry - Trump is far right - therefore protection of industry is far right.

Both of these types of policies are traditionally hated by the economic libertarians, who have somehow succeeded in convincing progressives they should embrace them. Not pragmatically, but ideologically, and as if they have always been believed by the left.

Quite ironic considering the issues that Italy are going through at the minute....

A second generation brit of Italian heritage insinuating that the British is deeply racist/xenophobic.

Meloni can make even make Farage wince, and that is only using the last year as as a bench mark

@DemiColon I'm not the OP though & i'm
unsure why you replied to my posts and assumed you knew my political leanings. I didn't state anything that was based on opinion just fact.

Other options might include things like better supporting training, increasing productivity through research, possibly increasing mothers in the workforce, or actually biting the bullet and looking at how to slowly make an economy smaller. This is a very difficult solution, and new ground. But probably will have to be faced in the end anyhow.

The UK has had a productivity issue for decades. How do we make the economy smaller? what does that actually look like?

My grandfather was hit by a car on purpose and called an outsider when he was living abroad in the 60’s. Being unwelcoming to immigrants is hardly a defining British trait. We have mass immigration and we absorb it and any disquiet about its social or economic effects are labelled racist. Sorry but the grooming gangs apologists on this thread show. I think looking at what has happened in Sweden shows that no matter how tolerant a country is there will be issues if you do not maintain controls over the people that move to a country.

The UK has had a productivity issue for decades. How do we make the economy smaller? what does that actually look like?

The world has had an productivity problem for decades, it isn't just a UK issue, the neolib mantra is to make sure the GDP line keeps going up, (eg: house prices keep increasing in price), the 'doctors and engineers' meme that we require via immigration means that you are ok with brain drain from countries that would need them to build there own economy. It is nothing more than a modern day serfdom.

The conversation will shift over the next few years as Labour take power and actually be in control instead of shouting from the side-lines with retroactive knee jerk responses such as we should adopt Keynesian economics instead of austerity despite Brown running openly stating the austerity is needed (and an EU mandate at the time).

The issues are multi faceted and there is no simple solution, but you can guarantee that another Rwanda solution will be provided under a Labour government, and those championing an ever increasing GDP line goes up will have to admit they are not traditionally left wing.

Is it only British people though? I‘ve spent some time in Germany - same issues exist there too. From what I‘ve heard, Italian and Turkish workers who came to Germany in the 1960s were often treated badly by the locals.
It wasn’t right of course and luckily things have changed since then (although xenophobia of course still exists), but I think attitudes like exist in most countries.

Yes it's racist to want zero immigration. I only want skilled and jobs we need though.

Japan doesn't have a great deal of immigration

Isn't it natural to want to be around people like yourself to some extent

The whole world needs to work on reducing the population by incentivising not having children or having one child instead of two or more. Companies are going to have to get used to not having a ready supply of workers, by investing in training, taking on school leavers and training them up in-house, and also in automation, look at the caring robot bears in Japan.

The world has had an productivity problem for decades, it isn't just a UK issue,

who said it was only a UK problem? nonetheless it's a problem here.

the neolib mantra is to make sure the GDP line keeps going up, (eg: house prices keep increasing in price),

house price growth above all else has fucked the economy so I'm not sure why people would want more of that.

the 'doctors and engineers' meme that we require via immigration means that you are ok with brain drain from countries that would need them to build there own economy. It is nothing more than a modern day serfdom.

Of course it's brain drain just like Australia trying to entice doctors from here over there. However I'm ok with it when it means I see a GP or get my operation.

The conversation will shift over the next few years as Labour take power and actually be in control instead of shouting from the side-lines with retroactive knee jerk responses such as we should adopt Keynesian economics instead of austerity despite Brown running openly stating the austerity is needed (and an EU mandate at the time).

I hope labour will get into power but I don't see things shifting too much re immigration . Personally I favour a radical overhaul of the tax system & would introduce some form of wealth tax, no one will vote for that though!

Increasing immigration is a guaranteed vote loser. Even most immigrants don't want more immigration.

The UK government can complain as much as they want. They will be ignored, just as the complaints from Ghana are being ignored by the UK government following the revelation that more Ghanaian medical professionals work for the NHS than work in the whole of Ghana.

"A 2021 report from the House of Commons in the United Kingdom has revealed that there are more health professionals of Ghanaian origin working for the National Health Service (NHS-UK) than in Ghana. According to the report, a total of 3,395 healthcare workers from Ghana are working in the UK. This is against a total of 3,236 Ghanaians working in Ghana as of 2021. This development has been described by the Ghana Medical Association as disturbing."

The whole world needs to work on reducing the population by incentivising not having children or having one child instead of two or more.

Now I think that is a little racist.

Much of the west have birth rates below replacement level. even so one dc born here has a larger carbon footprint than the dc born in the sub Sahara where birth rates are high.

Japan doesn't have a great deal of immigration

Yes but Japan has at least planned for their ageing population. They introduced an insurance model to help cope over 20 yrs ago.

Considering the colonisation and plundering Britain done over the centuries it’s now time to pay the piper

I know that you are not the OP and I have no ideas about your political leanings. I'm not sure why you think I did?

Many people have asked what a smaller economy might look like. I don't know but I think we will find out.

But that really wasn't the point of the post. I was talking about the fact that many people in the left now seem to be entirely unaware that movement of labour has always been a concern of the left, because of its affects on workers. And they accuse those who are concerned about it now of being far right or alt-right, or more often, racists.

What this means is those who promote policies like free movement, for their own nefarious purposes, can do so without having the ethical issues pointed out.

It's been a huge coup for global capitalists.

How does that pencil out?

Is it only British people though? I‘ve spent some time in Germany - same issues exist there too. From what I‘ve heard, Italian and Turkish workers who came to Germany in the 1960s were often treated badly by the locals.

No it isn't, you only have to look at recent european election results and general polling to see that what MN perceives as us being a backwater of inherent racism and going to the dogs it based on nothing more than myopic op-eds that feed a narrative.

The age old MN goto of nordic countries/germany are something we should emulate and are the grown ups when it suits are now being quietly ignored with regards to NHS reform and situations where the left are starting to have adult conversations around immigration, so much so that left leaning parties have come out as openly saying they want limits.

I have spent years in China with my white male colleague, we both experienced outright racism that would make MN blush, I've been fortunate enough to invited to corporate boxes for football across the globe and seen many high end derby's, I have never seen a whole stadium erupt in monkey chants apart from italy, I haven't seen british women shouting racist abuse at Turkish like I did watching a group of young German women verbally attack an older group of Turkish men.

Myself being a brown UK immigrant has faced more racist comments in Scotland .

MN isn't representative

@DemiColon I may be confusing you with another poster but I thought you were replying to my posts saying the left this, the right wing this etc.

I agree with you that immigration is a ponzi scheme but that's the model we currently have & we have a major demographic shift looming.
I don't know what a smaller economy looks like so was interested to hear your thoughts about that.

Imagine thinking this is the intelligent response to make and not just copied a twitter hot take.

even during MN peak Clique days, trolls would have a small amount of nuance and argument to troll, I would suggest you unblock a lot of the responses you have so you get a wider version of history, maybe use your RG degree and no doubt PHD/MSc to realise the reductive statement you are suggesting.