Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

@IWishItWasChristmas I missed the post quoted re being given housing but on what basis did you arrive in the U.K.?

Out of interest

eg work visa, asylum etc?

I didn't say I came with my parents now did I. I said I came with my family which is my husband and 4 children. My parents are not in the UK, they are in Asia, although that may change soon hopefully.

@IWishItWasChristmas that new immigrant family has more children than you so their need is greater, you better start packing your bags just like you expect us to.

Asylum

Totally. The biggest gains of the libertarian right, in my opinion, have been that Brexit, and the Trump election in the US, somehow made the political "left" start shilling for neoliberal capitalist policies. And calling anyone who wanted something else a fascist!

Or perhaps people simply recognise the fact that the model we have is based on immigration propping up the population so if that system isn't working we dont currently have an alternative.

One can acknowledge the reality without actually believing it's the best solution...

I think that is unlikely. I have 4 children. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make exactly?

I don't know how it isn't clear that this is a total recipe for social disaster.

You want people to hate outsiders? Well I know how. The town I live in has had a real influx of immigrants. All the ones I've met are quite lovely. They are often working in necessary jobs and they've been found homes, if not doctors.

We also have a major housing crises. Many of the people I see daily in my workplace are there for our open hours, all day, every day, because they live at the shelter up the road. It used to be that there was a six week limit - they have had to suspend that and have increased the shelter space by about 300%.

We also have quite a few living in the woods in tents. One this winter caught his tent on fire trying to keep it warm.

These are single men and women - housing priority does go to families, for clear reasons. That does not make it ok that there is a youngish woman, with some significant health issues, and no doctor, who I slip bottles of sanitizer to so she can light her campfire with wet wood at night, and who comes in crying in the morning because her hands are frozen.

Does anyone think that as all of these people are competing for the few apartments and rented rooms that become available they are not noticing that the newcomers are finding places to live? I spend a lot of time talking to the men from the shelter, and while most are nice enough people, there is a strong tendency to want to vote to the right on this issue alone.

new family has 5 children, get your bags packed!

and now the insults come out

@IWishItWasChristmas you said we should move out of our houses to make way for families with children despite having worked and paid for our houses but you aren't prepared to give up your house that was given to you for free for another family with say six children? Entitled or what!

I think you’ll find it’s you who is being insulting.

I think there is a huge difference between people wanting zero immigration and being concerned about how many we seem to welcome on an almost daily basis.

I have no issue with those who go via the proper channels and apply. After all, no one complains about Australia and their system where you are unlikely to get accepted without a trade, money or a sponsor.

However, I can't help but be concerned by Dover. I know many stories in the press are designed to sensationalise a situation, but it is uncontrolled. My concern isn't just for the numbers but how much we have paid France to attempt to stop it. France has basically banked it and laughed at us.

I also worry that it is mainly men. Whilst no one wants more women and children to drown, the amount of men is worrying. And are they really refugees or economic migrants? To my mind, refugees do indeed seek sanctuary in the first safe zone they reach.

As someone who lived near a very early hotel for migrants as a teen, who saw some of the behaviour these males engaged in, yes it worries me as I have a teen DD. There would be groups of 5 or 6, sitting on the wall outside and the things they used to say even to girls like me in school uniform was disgusting. They would think nothing of grabbing girls round the waist. And if you dared tell them to piss off the aggression was scary.

Not everyone is like that. But even a handful is unacceptable.

I also agree with someone who said our resources are at breaking point. The NHS is a big attraction and I saw an article this week about the money the NHS has lost due to health tourism, as they don't get paid by those who disappear after being treated.

I just think people would be less annoyed about it if we helped those on the streets already. Many are told they need to find their own private accomodation or that they are intentionally homeless. How must these people feel knowing that others get helped without question.

How did you find the process? Did you wait long before you could work etc

So the priority list now has caveats, is that specifically for immigrants only?

After all this is what you said:

I would support a family of immigrants particularly when children are involved to be prioritised over someone even if they were living here for 1000 years. The time someone has been here is irrelevant in assessing priority.

Following your logic, you have been here 8 years and recent immigrants with children are a priority over you?

Oh is she talking about people who have actually bought their house?? Jesus H Christ that’s even worse. Got to be a troll.

@IWishItWasChristmas I think you are a troll too, no immigrant I have ever met has your attitude.

No a total end to immigration is silly and impractical. But, a limit. I live in a street with lots of recent immigration and it causes so many issues. There are eight English households on a street of 120 houses. The problem a complete disregard of cultural values. If you have more people from another culture in an area then there will be issues as their culture will dominate which will cause frictions. Keeping a balance is important.

Haha in your dreams. Thankfully these ridiculous ideas of yours will never see the light of day. Our government might be stupid, but they’re not that bloody stupid.

No, I don't think that is the case. You don't call people racists and fascists because you are being pragmatic about the realities. You do it because you think they are espousing evil ideas.

And it's not just immigration. All kinds of policies that were normative on the left, like protection of industry, are now derided as "far right" because they are seen as connected to people like Trump. Trump says he will protect American industry, so suddenly these numpties think free trade is a leftist thing? They are idiots, and classist wankers, not pragmatists.

It’s interesting to me that settled immigrants are often the ones calling loudest for the borders to be controlled. Why do you think that is?

@RudsyFarmer If it's true then yes it's interesting, but what specific settled groups are often calling the loudest? I'm not doubting you (although I am surprised) but it's absolutely not what I'm seeing or hearing.

You just keep repeating insults and add nothing to the thread. You're dismissed and I shall not be responding to you further

@DemiColon I've never called anyone a fascist or a racist though. I think a major issue with Brexit was that debate was shut down with cries of racist. Of course one can have concerns re immigration without being a racist.

However I'm not sure why saying we have an ageing population & that our system is set up to use immigration to prop up the economic model is anything other than stating the facts?