Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

You’re taking the piss

No, I'm talking common sense unlike some

s not to say that we can’t have people from abroad in the future but I’d fully support a 5 year complete immigration ban, followed by far more stringent immigration rules.

economically how does this work? we have more over 65s than under 18s. In the 60s there was about 1 pensioner to 5 workers now it's about 1:3 & shrinking.

The population problem is the main reason why no political parties have really been able to address the issue.

However, trying to fix it with immigration is only a band-aid. It won't work long term, it doesn't address the fact that there is a real ponzi scheme element to the need to keep growing the economy and population, and in the end it will run up against issues like social cohesion. A robust society can integrate new people from different cultures and it's very effective and often strengthens the whole, but the more social and cultural change you have, and the quicker it happens, the less possibility of that real community integration happening there is. So too much and you destroy what you are trying to create.

There's a real need for a different way to approach the population problem.

So say for instance, a British couple have a 2 bedroomed house - their child has just left home and a family arrive from wherever. You think they should be chucked out?! You realise how many British born people with families are on the waiting list?

@IWishItWasChristmas you didn't answer my question about whether you would be prepared to give up your home for a more deserving family or give me the statistical facts about child abusers, I don't think I can take you seriously at all.

It depends, obviously not in an ideal world but yes they should - not chucked out but rehoused. Your eg isn't a British family, but a couple where their children have left home. If that is the case, they should be encouraged to downsize but ideally we would build more houses.

I haven’t noticed this so can’t say, but why do you think it is?

What do you mean " a more deserving family"?

We have an ageing population, without immigration our "natural" population would be declining. We actually need more immigrants or we face a lot higher taxes.

The neolib dogma

The long and short is that it costs less to import immigrants than to pay the costs of reproduction, including childcare, healthcare and education, and by importing immigrants this standard can be reduced and wages can be suppressed too.

When people talk about how the Overton window has shifted they don't realise that the online 'left' are openly parroting Thatcher-esc economic points, it is something political historians will trawl over.

Exactly! I have a refugee staying with me. I have good friends who were born outside the UK. BUT until we have built up our housing stock, we now need to call a halt to the number of economic migrants coming here (genuine refugees welcome!). Right now we have hotels full of people who are newly arrived in this country but we have no housing for them. Our NHS has many people from other parts of the world working for it, but the fact is that most immigrants are not qualified health or care workers. Our system is broken. The Tory government hasn't dealt with it and I don't think that Labour will be any better....At least, they haven't come up with any alternative plan.

@IWishItWasChristmas according to you "a more deserving family" is one arriving from another country with children rather than a single person who already lives here,

Yes it is, but I have children

Build more houses where? You realise how small the UK is right? We need green space and farmland.

And did you get my other question about the British born families already on the waiting list? Or do you think families from abroad need to be prioritised over those too?

And as someone else said, would you be happy to move out of your house if another family needed it more?

@DemiColon I'm very, very pro-immigration and theoretically I love the idea of open borders - pragmatically, not so much, and even I recognise the need for controls.

The population problem is the main reason why no political parties have really been able to address the issue.

Yes, this. They also don't know how to discuss it meaningfully without being driven by extreme opinions, left and right.

Totally. The biggest gains of the libertarian right, in my opinion, have been that Brexit, and the Trump election in the US, somehow made the political "left" start shilling for neoliberal capitalist policies. And calling anyone who wanted something else a fascist!

I answered your question, and most of the Uk is not built on

@IWishItWasChristmas your children, your responsibility, you can't seriously expect people to be thrown out of their homes just because you chose to procreate. Unbelievable!

Right, so the British born families on the waiting list her priority … glad we agree

t doesn't matter how long anyone has been living here. I myself came with my family from an Asian country 8 years ago and was given housing due to having a young family. That is what mattered, not what race anyone is and rightly so. Of course I would like everyone to be given housing, but there needs to be a priority list as some people/families have a more pressing need than others for accommodation. I would support a family of immigrants particularly when children are involved to be prioritised over someone even if they were living here for 1000 years. The time someone has been here is irrelevant in assessing priority.

So following your logic then, you and your parents should be demoted to lower down the list of housing as new immigrants come along, maybe the list could decide that your not a priority anymore so you have to move out of your house to make way for newer migrants, after all there needs to be a priority list and recent migrants are more pressing than you and your family that have been here for 8 years?

That's not what I said, nice strawman statement though

It isn't about " newer or old immigrants". It's about needs of that specific immigrant

I don’t know. I just think it’s really interesting.

@DemiColon i actually agree with you but as it stands we don't have an alternative solution.

@Justanotherlurker so economically how do we fund an ageing population & the model of the NHS, increased social care demands. We are struggling now so how are you going to fund it? Particularly with the issue around intergenerational equality. I think you are misunderstanding my point. The gov hasn't invested in its own youth so what other alternative is there?

Of course you didn’t. Because you laughably believe that migrant families should be prioritised over British born families.

I think you’re a troll. I think you’re trying to provoke far right comments by posting provocatively in this manner. Nobody would be this selfish and entitled in real life.