Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. We are stealing skilled staff from impoverished countries.

Those countries have trained them and probably paid for their training too and as soon as they're qualified they're off. Lured to the UK - where the streets are paved with gold.

However when they arrive they find it's a completely different story. Such as where am I going to live. No room at the inn re: the scarceness of rental property.

Laughing at the thought of a care worker being offered a job before securing a visa with a salary of over £25,600/annum as a Health or Care worker. Same with a teacher from abroad being offered above the lowest band (QTS often doesn't transfer over, so a qualified teacher may have to go with Unqualified, therefore not meeting the lowest requirements) before securing a visa.

www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/different-salary-requirements

And yet Senior Care workers can apply for jobs at less than £7 an hour. Occ code 6146
www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations

Fully agree with this. And I‘m an immigrant myself, currently living in the UK.

I used to see this issue as much more black-and-white, used to think that those who voted for Brexit did it because they disliked foreigners.

I now live in a place with high levels of diversity, but integration and social cohesion are definitely lacking.

Some people are openly complaining about it, but they are often called racist as a result. Others just quietly move away - while in principle supporting diversity, they don’t seem to appreciate the type we get around here.

It‘s a very complex issue, but there needs to be a discussion about it.

Americans could be preferred because they are known to come via proper channel and don't need accommodation provided by tax payer money.
Also, EU membership would have provided white workers, whereas Brexiters preferred Indians workers coming on visa, so how is skin colour important?

Yeah they're racist. No one is "taking our jobs, taking our houses etc" all of these jobs and houses are open and available to British Nationals, but a lot of people in this country seem to think they're too good for certain jobs and houses, so they end up being filled by people who do actually want them.

OR the jobs that people are moaning about immigrants "stealing" are positions like doctors aka a position that you have to work really hard for, you can't just come over and steal 🤦‍♀️

Yes they are racist, the too many people argument doesn’t hold up. We don’t have enough working age people in this country to support the economy. We have too many old people, can’t imagine those screaming we’re full are going to start campaigning for a ship them out programme for the elderly. Maybe they could be sent to nice hotels with swimming pools in Rwanda?

A work colleague of mine who was a biochemist had just completed supervision and was about to start shift work was made to return to Barbados where laboratory jobs are few and far between as it’s a small island.
The argument used was that she didn’t earn enough and although the shift work would have put her in the correct income bracket the Home office refused to listen.
It happened about a year after Cameron got in and was definitely done to reduce immigration as it happened all over the country.
We lost a valuable member of staff, who had accommodation and a skilled job supporting herself, all to fulfil a political brief.

Yeah those annoying old people huh ? What a bloody disgusting comment. There are hotels full of immigrants just sitting around all day costing millions. Show me the jobs they are all supposed to be doing ??

@lollipoprainbow try reading my comment again. I’m suggesting the argument for the tiny island being full doesn’t hold up, considering we don’t have enough workforce to staff a functional health service or the hospitality industry. All the services we need to support our aging population relies on a young workforce, considering we don’t have our own, we’ll need to import one or our elderly will be left to an undignified end.
Asylum seekers are not allowed to work in this country despite many of them being skilled workers that could contribute to our economy, but don’t let that fact get in the way of your opinion

Clearly the "zero immigration" argument is not racist in itself because it would treat people from all races equally, especially if all countries applied it.

I don't think all people who want to cut immigration are racist either, in my experience for the most part the people who want the most drastic cuts don't discriminate against particular countries or ethnicities, they just want all people to stop coming into the country.

It would probably be helpful if there were defined criteria for coming into the country that everyone understood and mostly agreed with. The only criteria that should be used is the test of how much benefit there would be to the country for letting someone in.

This is because people don't dislike immigration in itself, they dislike the negative impact immigration has on the country. It costs billions and many people born in this country are struggling. If immigrants had to pay to get into the country, had to work in jobs that we struggle to fill, were prohibited from sending any of their earnings overseas and would be deported once they were no longer useful, this would probably satisfy many anti-immigration exponents.

Too many old people you say? I think there's an irony here, did you miss it?

'Old people' don't just expire after they're done paying taxes. They have every right to rest and continue living and be looked after. One of my parents was an immigrant and the type some people don't like. And it's wrong the way some people treat immigrants, and even separate refugees into worthy and unworthy (Afghans vs Ukrainians). Still, people have every right to be concerned for issues like overpopulation and cultural erosion if that's what's happening in their area.

But who will pay for their rest? We have a massive demographic bulge of people at or above retirement age in this country. We have a dwindling working population who need to pay for a growing retired population and a dropping birth rate because people simply can't afford to have kids until they are much older or even not at all.

It is okay to get huffy about statements like 'too many old people' but it doesn't change the demographic and economic reality. We need more people working with higher wages to support a generation that has been promised protected pension benefits if they vote Tory. The government needs to solve this issue and make the country seem like a shit place to move to is not going to help that.

The problem is people who think that we could control it in a 100% veted way, so that we insure everyone we let in are bringing something to our economy, at least more than they take, but then we don't want to give them the good jobs that should only go to Brits. So ok to invite them to do what Brits don't want to do but noone else.

Of course it is racist! These people are just like us. They want to better their lives, not be slaves to jobs we are only want to give them just because they are not British. We want them to adjust to our culture, traditions, principles but don't want to have the same entitlements. We want to control them to our benefit solely. It doesn't get worse.

We have more than enough people of working age in this country, employers just aren't prepared to pay decent wages. And there are some people who like having a servant class who will bring them coffee and food to their door for a pittance. It's the same people who would have been against the abolition of slavery in the US in the 1800s. "Because of the economy".

@Eleganz you haven't thought this one through, have you? You want to increase the birth rate to pay for more old people. Are those children never making it to retirement age themselves or what? Are you just going to keep bringing people in until nobody has any resources to live?

How does creating more children/flying people in solve your problem? Unless these people die as soon as they're economically inactive too

Basically, natural increase of the population doesn't solve an aging population it just means you have an even bigger ageing population in 40 years.

I think you have to draw a distinction between legal migration and illegal migration.

Personally I think we should lower the criteria for legal migration (we need skilled and unskilled workers for starters) and get tougher on illegal migration but making obvious exceptions for people who are genuinely seeking asylum.

I want to live in a country that is an amazing mix of cultures, ethnicities and people from all different walks of life - that to me is a healthy country. But I think problems occur when people attempt to enter illegally.

If we lowered the criteria for legal entry, we'd put the hideous people traffickers out of business too.

If we legalized murder it'd stop there being any murderers too...

And since we are like many other first world countries an aging population , with a falling birth rate , who are currently not training and retaining enough health professionals (at all levels) and teachers, let alone builders, electricians and plumbers who do you see being the care givers of the future, or the people who maintain the infrastructure, build the houses, the hospitals etc.

And then there are the service industries and the farming industries both of which are heavily dependant on Labour which frankly isn’t forthcoming from the existing population.

Many of the people who want to come and live here have the skills and education to make a difference, if they are allowed to remain and work. And of those who don’t a lot have the energy and entrepreneurial push to make something of their life through hard work.

We are happy to accept without question the dregs of criminal lowlife from many Eastern block countries, the Middle East and elsewhere as long as they show they have a few million ( no questions asked as to provenance) to put in a bank account, even if it is clear that they have no interest in living in the UK and contributing to society.

No.It is because this island is too small for the thousands flooding in for free everything.
Yes thousands want to work but many more dont.
Doesn't matter what the skin colour is,it is the values the person has and many have none.every town has groups in the town centres smoking swearing ,brand new everything,aggressive to locals,sexually threatening to females,beach towns have huge areas barricaded off for their own personal use on the sand preventing anyone entering,constant begging and abuse hurled if not given money.It is not racist to state these facts .It is what is happening.
There are thousands of immigrants who are amazing.we are grateful to them.
We,and maybe they,are let down by the scroungers,no matter what colour they are or where they arrive from.

"And since we are like many other first world countries an aging population , with a falling birth rate , who are currently not training and retaining enough health professionals (at all levels) and teachers, let alone builders, electricians and plumbers who do you see being the care givers of the future, or the people who maintain the infrastructure, build the houses, the hospitals etc."

The answer to this is that the government and companies need to invest more in training young people (and not so young people) so we have more health professionals (at all levels), teachers, builders, electricians and plumbers.

I agree, the government could be doing more to encourage training, and more importantly retention, in many jobs, but this doesn’t solve the issue of an ageing population and a falling birth rate. Look at the situation in Japan, where the population demographics are being skewed firstly by the tiny birth rate that isn’t even replacing the current population and exacerbated by the huge demands made on government finances by an ageing population. In twenty years time they simply won’t have enough people of working age to cover their needs as a country. Even huge financial incentives aren’t persuading Japanese families to have more children.

I now live in a place with high levels of diversity, but integration and social cohesion are definitely lacking.

Interesting, I feel the same.

I grew up in the Lakes, which is spectacularly non-diverse, but the main division is farming vs incomers. There's great cohesion between the incomers, if that makes sense?

Whereas I currently live in a very cohesive neighbourhood in Birmingham, but would say that the city as a whole is very diverse, but with very little integration and cohesion in some areas.

No black people over 60? Sorry, as a pinkish, no such thing as 'white', almost 75 year old shall I top myself to help your spurious statistics?