AIBU - school related

[Flothecat]

I've only got one DD, just turned 5, at Reception. She is a very compliant child, very social, had made a few friends since starting school, is a little bit more advanced with Phonics and maths compared with what they are doing at school and generally very happy.

However, she likes being her behaviour or her 'work' being recognised. It's something I've only recently realised. For instance they do 'star of the day' thing at school and she was one of the last to get it. There were kids with challenging behaviours (we know them from nursery) who got it much earlier (because they weren't so bad on that particular day) and DD was always coming home telling me why she is not getting it as she thinks she's always good.

When she finally got it, teachers told me it was very well deserved as she's always 'pretty starry', their exact words. It motivated her so much, she couldn't wait to go back to school.

Now I see other kids with all sorts of stickers, 'head of the day', 'great job' and so on, again some of the kids who are actually quite disruptive and challenging. DD told me this morning she thinks she's not good enough and that the teachers never notice her when she does something good. I'm not happy that she feels this way.

I had parents evening meeting 2 days ago and the teacher told me how wonderful, kind and well behaved she is, she ways has a positive attitude about all the activities they are doing and could not tell me anything negative. I asked her if there is anything we need to work on and she said keep doing what are you doing as it's working.

AIBU to ask how are other schools with kids that are consistently good? Do they get any recognition? I understand that the school needs to bring everyone up but I feel like in this class the disruptive kids get a lot more attention.

The children who are behind developmentally , have Sen or issues at home need more support/scaffold to get them to where they need to be. Whereas your child is already attaining. I'd work on your child's confidence to recognise her success for her self without needing outside praise. The other option would be private school with lower ratios your child would receive more attention or of course home schooling.

This happens all the time unfortunately. If you have a child who is generally well behaved and performs well with little
input from the teacher, they don’t tend to get recognition. It’s almost as if they think it’s their normal state and takes no effort. DS was overlooked for a key role in his last year of primary after never having put a foot wrong for 6 years. The child who was given the role had a history of bad behaviour and in the end made no effort at all. DS made his contribution in a very significant way regardless (of his own volition), but it was extremely disappointing for him.

Not being a teacher I do find it unfair on the children who go the extra mile, but i understand it’s about rewarding a
change in behaviour or effort. If your child is already producing the goods then there is little benefit to the teacher to reward them for it.

All the kids I'm my son's class in reception and year one used to come out with at least a sticker each! I think they found all children worked better with praise and so multiple stickers were given out. Every child got at least one and others had more but I think it worked as noone felt left out and all children felt proud of their work.

I expect your child feels proud when she reads a story, draws a lovely picture, listens to the teacher and straight away understands what she is being asked to do.

I expect her work has lots of ticks and 'well done' comments, and she is sometimes chosen to take a message or hand the books out. I expect she gets lots of smiles and 'good job' from the teacher.

Im a teacher and I'm on the fence about rewards. They can work but I'm not daft enough to think that every teacher uses them well. What I do know is that the best kids, the lovely easygoing ones, the ones who are a pleasure to teach and know, really don't care about them. I have had children say 'can you give my sticker to X please, I think he'd like it more.' I always think that attitude reflects so well on the parents too because they have modelled and taught what is important. Demonstrate to your child that she can feel proud and try hard without a pat on the head, and she'll believe you.

It is utter bollocks and they’re far too young to get the complexities of applauding Little Johnny for not beating the crap out of a classmate. Undermine it at every opportunity, buy your own teacher stickers (check which ones the teacher has and get something similar) and give her stickers for giggling/skipping/doing the monkey bars/not burping in class etc.

When mine started reception there was star of the day, behaviour rainbow, kindness elves and a marble jar. They couldn’t consistently tell me how it all worked so there was no way it could possibly work to control behaviour. No 5 year old is going to think “Hang on…I’d better not climb on the chair because I’ll have to take a marble out of the jar which will mean the treat the entire class is expecting in 4 weeks time will be delayed”.

These systems punish the compliant majority and foster a “why bother?” attitude. What is the actual point of working hard if you don’t get the reward? The chance of getting the reward is dangled in front of them every day then it’s given to someone else and yes, “someone” has to get it but the negative impact it has on those who don’t get it far outweighs the benefit to the individual. They’re 5. They don’t give a crap about fostering resilience or sympathy or empathy, they want to be Star of the Day or to get a sticker!

You may have guessed that I don’t agree with extrinsic reward systems! OP, out of interest where did you go to school and what did they do instead? How was unwanted behaviour dealt with?

FWIW

For some children with needs, going an afternoon without disrupting the class is them going the extra mile.

I think you will be better off speaking with your daughter that she won’t be number 1 all the time. Celebrate her achievements at home. School here seems to give everyone a shot as every kid has something to be celebrated, even those that struggle with regulating their behaviour or aren’t as advanced. There’s always positives to be found.

"Undermine the teacher at every opportunity"

That's helpful advice.

Out of curiosity, what strategies would you implement to help with classroom management? Genuinely interested.

Child with ASC, excels in reading. Is always polite and this was constantly said to me. Unfortunately the only award they got in the whole time at junior (yr3-6) school was for punctuality. Yay(!)

I think the way DS' teacher does it is best, lots of stickers for all, everday. Everyone gets motivated.

I have 1 very "clever" child, i can see the buzz she gets when she e.g. knows she's read a tricky word. DS has additional needs and he needs to put SO much energy into things he really needs the motivation to climb the proverbial mountain.

I dont think anyone should be left out (doesnt seem like your DD was,?) And at this age dolling out lots of stickers daily is the way to go!

@BellaCiao1 I didn’t say undermine the teacher, I said “it” ie the system. I don’t need to come with classroom management systems.

I always support school/teachers even when they do things I don’t agree with. When my 5 year old is in floods of tears because they haven’t been given SOTD again when they’ve done everything they were asked yes, I will undermine the reward system. When I’m struggling to get my DC to engage with school without giving up in Reception because they aren’t being rewarded then yes, I will undermine the system.

In our school where there are very few behavioural issues, these systems really are redundant. I have very well behaved children who have not been brought up without rewards/punishments, they just do what they’re meant to. For what it’s worth, different teachers in the same school use SOTD in a genuinely arbitrary way and I’ve had no tears/complaints from either my DC or anyone else’s about how unfair it is.

I’m genuinely interested to know how you think these systems help the majority of pupils ie not the ones who’s behaviour isn’t ideal. Do you think attendance awards encourage children to go to school?

Maybe read her ‘you are special’ by Max Lucado - it has religious undertones but doesn’t mention God or anything so can be read by anyone. It’s a childrens book with beautiful artwork.

“Every day the small wooden people called Wemmicks do the same thing: stick gold stars or grey dots on one another.”

The ‘good’ Wemmicks get gold stars, the ‘bad’ get grey dots. Then there is one wemmick who has neither, none stick to her, because she doesn’t need anyone else to tell her how good or bad she is, she already knows for herself.

I think it’s a lovely story to teach about striving for self-validation, rather than seeking validation/accepting judgement from others.

I don't agree with star of the day/week, think it's a load of shite and serves more harm than good.

I've said up thread I do a house point system and everyone gets points on merit. I think what parents need to realise is that not all children can be treated equally, some have additional or different needs and by virtue they have to have special measures in place to achieve what other children do.

I only asked you for ideas as so many disagree with reward systems in schools and if anyone had ideas for an alternative to classroom management I'd be all ears.

Same issue here. DD was upset saying school don't think she's good enough. I tried explaining its because they're used to her being good, but that's hard for a young child to understand. Luckily she then got it twice in a row! But I will mention it at parents evening.

This is the problem when you reward "good" behaviour which is actually just behaviour which is and should be expected. We create a whole generation that believes not beating other kids up is enough for praise. It's nonsense. We should be praising the good ones to the sky and swiftly managing the behaviour of the kids who can't or won't comply.

Sorry@Lolapusht just saw the end of your post.

I totally disagree with attendance/punctuality awards. That's the premise of the parent not the child.

My school has very few behavioural problems as well, however, you're at the outside looking in. Do not underestimate how difficult classroom management is even with a class of 'good' children. Low level disruption is a massive challenge in the day to day running of a classroom.

Its unfortunate because the message good kids get is "be bad and then people will praise you when you are good". My only suggestion is praise etc when she is home with rewards that she actually enjoys. Stickers etc are okay though the novelty wears off soon enough.

Honestly, don't mention it at parents evening.

And how do you suggest schools manage the behaviour of 5 and 6 year old enough "can't or won't comply" @Burgoo. Detention? Beat them? Or what about praising them when they do manage it? Makes just as much sense as rewarding a child for doing something that comes easily to them, maybe more.

Just to add, my DS8 has learning difficulties and ASD and is very behind (waiting for a transfer to specialist setting). But he’s quiet and not disruptive. He knows he’s doing different work to his classmates, that he’s ‘different’ and will say about his work that it’s not as good as everyone else. It really impacts his confidence and self-esteem. He has his own private sticker chart each week to reward him on achieving his personal objectives, (like writing more than one sentence, or writing the date by himself) which is sent home for me on a Friday and he is rewarded by me accordingly. His teacher or 1:1 give the stickers at the end of each day when he has his private ‘daily debrief’ so the rest of the class don’t even know it exists, but it means a lot to him because it’s ‘achievable’ for him.

As a class, they give out star of the week to two children in the class each week - and each child will get the same amount over the year. So my son will get three a year just like the brightest in class will get three, just for different things. They also earn class marbles and then get to choose a class reward at the end of each half term (usually ends up being movie and popcorn in pjs!)

Its interesting to read different perspective on this.

DD’s school gives out 2-3 certificates per class per week, but all for the school values. Last year DD got a certificate pretty much every week, far more than any of her class mates. She’s quiet, very well behaved, struggles with learning a bit but not too far behind. Fairly unremarkable and other parents couldn’t understand it why she was getting so many.

What they didn’t know, is that DD is adopted and has a crippling lack of self worth. She barely spoke to teachers and couldn’t tolerate praise or the focus of attention being on her.

Her wonderful life changing teacher discovered that getting a certificate was a non threatening way in to my DD, a way of letting her know ‘I see you’ and ‘you matter’. DD flourished under her care and it all began with the certificates.

DD hasn’t had a certificate at all yet this year & I’m incredibly grateful…she no longer needs them.

Yep it does happen, and it’s tough.

But the way I explain it to my dc is they’ve already won the big prize, because they are intrinsically motivated. They try their hardest, and behave etc because they understand why it’s important and that will serve them well through their whole lives. They don’t need the stickers etc because what they have is much more useful.

We also talk about how they find lots of things like listening, making good learning choices, easier than some children. So they get recognised for different things. It wouldn’t be fair for them to be recognised for the same things because they aren’t working as hard at those things as some other children are.

Ultimately it is much much better to be intrinsically motivated. Teach your dd to worry about personal bests, improvements and successes rather than worrying about stickers and prizes.

I hate this bullshit where well behaved children who do well are forgotten because they are not disruptive and it’s one of the reasons I will be sending my child to a fee paying school. Because yes, they do well, but they could still be falling short of their potential because of a lack of attention.

Exactly this. Teaching your children to hang on the approval of others is setting them up for a lifetime of disappointment and probably failed relationships.

Self validation is much more healthy.

I have brought my children up abroad where they don't start formal type schooling till after turning six. They have no reward systems whatsoever, at least in the schools I know. They don't get stars or certificates or prizes, I suppose they got verbal praise and written praise on their workbooks kind of thing. Then again every single piece of work was " graded", and this made up their report card. This approach took a bit of getting used to🙄.
I'm not really sure how children who found classroom environments difficult were helped. The majority of children with SEN had been recognised generally within pre- school 3-6 and therefore would have A SEN teacher sitting with them for at least part of the school day.