Will Liz Truss really last only 17 more days?

[Uninspiredusername]

Newspaper reports as scathing as ever, and The Times suggesting Tories are lining up Sunak and Mordaunt as a duo.

can’t stand the woman but surely she’ll hold on for a bit longer - everyone was saying Boris would go much earlier than he did. And why on earth did they vote her into power in the first place 🙄

Grammarnut · Today 11:54

"Yes, maybe. But did you want to be subsumed into a United States of Europe run by France (which is trashing us) and Germany?"

Oh my God ! They walk amongst us !

Some (inconvenient) facts

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-how-has-the-waiting-list-changed-over-the-years

A general election based on re-entering the EU would have been lost to the party which supported the democratic act of carrying out the country's decision to leave. Sovereignty is important. Not being run by France and Germany is also important. There is a world to trade with and the EU is becoming less relevant. Johnson won - you will all remember - on promising to leave the EU as parliament had decided.

Sovereignty is important.

What is Sovereignty and how does it serve us in the global economy?

@Grammarnut and yet the % of people who think Brexit was a bad idea is rising, as is the % of people who would now support rejoining. It won't happen any time soon, especially because the UK has shown itself to be a bad faith actor internationally, but the tide is turning. Democracy is not set in stone. Give it 10 years and we will see how a vote goes. Will you accept it if it doesn't go your way?

I prefer this version ...

There is no evidence the % of people not liking Brexit is rising. Brexiteers did not vote on economic matters but on political ones and these have not changed. The current problems are caused by the unexpected arrival of Covid and Ms Truss's mini-budget. Indeed democracy is not set in stone, but if it is acted against - as suggested by both Labour and the mis-named Liberal Democrats - then democracy is destroyed. I doubt there will be a wish to re-join whatever the EU is in ten years time but if there is and the electorate vote for it then, of course, I will accept it. I believe in democracy - unlike the Remainers who called 'the likes of me' unintelligent, uneducated, gammons etc. and said we should have the franchise removed from us. All sour grapes and a lack of belief in democracy even if it doesn't go your way!

It's just demographics, because of age cohorts and Brexit support. The people who have got the right to vote since 2016 are disproportionately Remain, the people who've died are disproportionately Leave. No judgement, it's just a question of dates of birth.

I doubt there will be a wish to re-join whatever the EU is in ten years time

Why do you doubt it? Simple logic tells you why it’s likely. A large chunk of the leave vote is/will be dead, a lot of the leave vote has changed its mind and there will be 16 years’ worth of younger voters who were too young to vote in 2016, a demographic that wants to be part of Europe. Add those factors together and it looks highly likely to me.

Not only what @Blossomtoes has said, but there will also be many people who have seen for themselves how bad Brexit has been for the UK. Sovereignty is a lot less important when you have seen businesses close down, staff leave, research investment plummet and trade fall.

There is a world to trade with and the EU is becoming less relevant

That frankly is a load of old bollocks.

Remind me of the expected boost to gdp of the Aus/Nz deals? One tenth of one percent and that’s the best case scenario. They were rushed through deals, designed to appeal to poorly informed people such as yourself, nothing more. They were practically laughing at us for signing such awful deals!

And any other deal available to us will be on significantly worse terms than the deals already available to EU members. That’s the reality.

Brexit was an emotional/nostalgia/racist vote. Most Brexiteers I suspect hoped that the Five Eyes intelligence cooperation between the US and the four British powers - UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - could be expanded and enhanced into a replacement for the EU along with the counters that were part of the Empire. Brexiteers understood that Britain needed partners, they just didn't want those partners to be France and Germany.

Rather than adding Britain's powerful voice to the EU, Brexiteers seems to have felt that the days of Empire were readily at hand: English first, British second, European never.

Essentially it played to the mindset of the little Englander. I still remember the pub in Sunderland where they started singing rule Britannia on hearing the result.

Why do you doubt it? Simple logic tells you why it’s likely. A large chunk of the leave vote is/will be dead, a lot of the leave vote has changed its mind and there will be 16 years’ worth of younger voters who were too young to vote in 2016, a demographic that wants to be part of Europe. Add those factors together and it looks highly likely to me.

Then also add to this the number of EU nationals who didn't get a vote in 2016 but have since become British as a consequence of Brexit. They're not all Remain, but whenever they've been surveyed they have been disproportionately so.

It will happen in increments. The UK needs to join the Single Market in the first instance. And then there'll be closer and closer alignment.

SNP to be His Majesties Opposition 😂

I find it interesting that Hunt has reversed pretty much everything in the mini-budget but the bit on bankers bonuses.

Hunt keep the bankers happy !
They must be over the moon.
They are clearly the ones in charge

Before 2016 I would have said satire. These days though...

Don't forget the NHS satisfaction at an all-time and the near erasure of waiting lists. But you can't trust Labour with the NHS apparently 😂

FFS you won! Yet still the eternal victims.

Sorry to hear that, but I can only speak from my own experience. Labour poured a fortune into healthcare (and yes i know there is retrospective criticism of how they handled GP contracts), and it was the only time I remember in my life when you could ring up a practice, have the phone answered, make an appt with your own GP for that day or the next, or get registered with a NHS dentist and seen within a reasonable time. I remember going to A&E in 2003 with a ruddy cat bite and being seen within ten minutes, there was no queue, and having stitches on another occasion think 1999, all done by a doctor, within a very short time. It seems like some surreal dream now.

I think that’s spot on.

Just show you have your rose tinted's on @acrimoniousone

But then why shouldnt we be nostaligic for a time when politicans tried to improve the country for everyone and we had services to be proud of?

Not victims. But those who were angry at the Brexit vote did say some pretty unpleasant things. They also wanted to overturn a democratic vote even after it had been backed by an Act of Parliament after Miller's challenge in the Supreme Court. Had the vote gone the other way I doubt Brexiteers would have marched calling Remain voters foul names. Certainly I would not.

So Penny Mordaunt is answering the urgent Q from Labour today. Is this her audition for a parliamentary members only run off between her and Hunt as to who gets to play leader and who plays chancellor? 1922 committee changes the rules tomorrow. Liz Truss, holds her leaving party tonight at no 10 tonight (at Government expense) and avoids doing PMQs on Wednesday...