To think Ukrainian families may just have to..

[FindingMyself1999]

Go back? bbc article

such a sad situation but we barely have enough housing or school places as it is. Unless the hosts can act as guarantors? That’s a possibility ?

the government really hasn’t thought through the aftermath of the hosting scheme.

People taking the piss isn't a matter of nationality, it's a relatively common human trait.
I agree. I don't know why some posters seem to think refugees are all suffering saints. They are not. People are complex, even the very best people have their failings and the very worst have their positives, most of us are a mixture of everything.

And to this -
A previous poster tells us that Ukrainians who haven’t even lived in Ukraine for 10 years have been able to come over.
Yes true, nine years living in Asia, her friend moved here under the scheme and that's why she came, friend fixed her up with a host. Believe it, don't believe it, up to you. As I said earlier, higher hurdles preventing this sort of thing would just slow down the escape of others though and the UK Visa scheme was far to slow already. They should have binned the whole idea of a visa when this first kicked off and just sorted paperwork when people got here like most of Europe did.

I have known a British builder/labourer - who always works in cash, reckoned he had a bad back, is now on pension credit having barely paid any NI in his life and has a nice 1-bed council flat in Twickenham. He boasted about spending 3 months in Thailand every year doing what you could imagine he would do there. Voted for Brexit and doesn't like immigrants. Should we say all Brits are like that?

Oh dear, I seem to be querying your assertions rather a lot today. Nothing personal.

Uk nationals had recourse ….. in a very much more limited way than vice versa. I lived in France for fifteen years. Other Uk citizens were often surprised at the restricted access to public funds compared to the UK legislation for access to things such as child benefit or unemployment benefit. ( I was aware of this as I spoke decent French and was sometimes used as an unofficial ie unpaid interpreter). It was one of the reasons that there are relatively few EU citizens of other nationalities living and working in France, at least outside the cities. ( also of course the very few vacancies in France, and the deep dislike of the French for employing anyone not French).

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen Far from placing absolute trust in the government, it’s a perfect example of how to organise a shitshow. However, is it too much to ask a basic level of competency? Clearly it is.

And re your first paragraph, yes, they had that at the start, with Ukrainians having to apply at Visa Application Centres which included passport and biometric checks. While that method was fortunately scrapped in March, biometric tests are still required - just after arriving in the UK instead of prior to arrival. Here’s the explanation:

“Biometric checks are an essential part of our visa application process. There are those who seek to take advantage of the UK, and we will not let them use the Government’s humanitarian schemes for Ukrainians fleeing the Russian invasion to do so.
We are aware of cases where individuals that could pose a national security threat have attempted to enter the UK during crisis situations, and biometric checks have enabled us to identify these individuals as potential threats.
However, in order to make our Schemes as straightforward to use as possible, and based on the latest security advice, on 15 March we made changes to allow Ukrainians with valid passports who are eligible for this route to do their application online. They will no longer need to go to a Visa Application Centre to give their biometrics before they come to the UK, instead giving them after they have entered the UK.”

So, to steal an example from above, if the biometric check and passport check isn’t showing residency in Asia for 9 years, what is it doing? Either the checks have failed, or the person being referred to has come in via another type of visa/legal migration route.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen
I can’t really see that you’ve queried “a lot” of my assertions so much as misunderstood one post and kindly corrected me on the situation in France on another so no offense taken 😊

The idea that foreign nationals can claim recourse to public funds seems so alien to some that it helps to point out it’s not a UK only phenomenon. And even on the UK of course, non-EU nationals (dependent on visa type) don’t have recourse to public funds. DH is a non-EU national so couldn’t claim for social housing, free NHS care, free dentistry, unemployment benefit etc etc and that’s absolutely fine with us. Of course all his taxes go into the UK system which means he pays in but doesn’t directly benefit, but again, we knew that before we came here.

free dentistry

Your having a laugh. The Tories have basically privatised dentistry. When my guest arrived, we had a big long list of jobs to do and things to register for. Included in that, on the government's helpful list, was register with an NHS dentist, as if that's just a thing you can do. Most Ukrainians I know go home for medical and dental treatment which really says something about the state of healthcare here.

@Kendodd very true, I can’t believe that’s not even a possibility anymore. And for it to be suggested to Ukrainian guests feels very wrong as not only is it not available for UK nationals, it’s likely never going to be available for them. I feel like they’ve been sold a lie in terms of what they can expect here.

(And I was a bit angry about having to put free NHS treatment, as I’ve had to pay privately to sort out a pretty debilitating problem as the NHS waiting list was over 2 years. I’m lucky I could, how on earth people who that’s not an option for are supposed to cope is beyond me. Sorry for the sidetrack.)

I was very honest with my Ukrainian guest about what the UK was really like before she came, I don't think she really believed it though. I know dentistry was a joke, I didn't realise quite how bad our health service is in comparison though. Ironically (and unfairly if you ask me, you may disagree) there is a dentist locally taking on Ukrainians (nobody else) as NHS patients. My guest registered with them although is still unhappy because they don't just dish out antibiotics as they do in Ukraine.

The state of healthcare and dentistry (and public housing and every other public service) isn't her fault though, its 100% our fault. We get what we vote for.

“Unless you’re accusing our govt of being hideously incompetent”

I mean………………

Oh and the person living in Asia came here in July, don't know where that puts them in the getting a Visa thing. I don't really know the other person who was living in Asia well.

I’d suggest a course in statistics

I hosted April to September a family of three, they got jobs and we managed to get them into a private rental with an understanding landlord and the council supported so no guarantor needed. The ending is the hardest bit of all to manage well. Our host experience was positive but I too was struck by the huge advantages out family had compared to other refugees. I was also struck that they didn’t ask if they could contribute at all financially and felt free bus passes/ entrance to zoo etc etc that they got initially was something they came to expect. Our experience was overall positive but it is only now they have gone my own teenagers have said how tough it was. Would I do it again if faced with it again in March 22 yes. Would i do it again now - no! Well done to all fellow hosts x

Robust checks definitely do not happen. I've known of a host who had brought a guest over and he did it so that he had a ready made housewife. That man had schizophrenia and severe depression. The family were put in a hotel once that came out.

I'm not really blaming the Ukrainians, but our shit show of a government.

I've also heard of them complaining about the cost of transport. Considering they are getting universal credit and no bills, that will be the least of their worries!

I've heard the most successful placements are those when the guest gets a job and quickly moves on. My guest shows no intention of doing either.
Would I do it again though? Actually yes. My guests city was bombed while she was there. Its not occupied or even really front line, but still, she had a child, and they were being bombed. So despite her unwillingness to pay her own way, and her racism, I would do it again. None of this is her kids fault. I will be very glad when they do eventually move out though.

It's well known now predatory men stalk Facebook looking for vulnerable women to host. In most cases I don't think checking would reveal this, women just need good escape routes.

People in a helpless situation can be childlike and expect to be helped. It's easy to see how this could happen. Any one of us could react the same way. It must be very disorientating.

My deep respect and gratitude to all the hosts. It cannot be easy.

It's interesting to see how many posters have a concept of a good refugee and a not good refugee. It's actually very difficult to be a good refugee and not everyone is going to hit the mark because refugees are just people like the rest of us, often under stress that doesn't place them in their finest hour. We help because we should, not because they deserve it. There will never be a flux of deserving refugees to cancel out those not toeing the line. We don't offer shelter on that basis. It's quite naïve to be disillusioned or to feel there's some lefty gotcha moment when people don't behave the way you'd imagined. That is the reality of providing aid. Foster children experience the same phenomenon.

I very much agree with this.

Excellent post.

And equally, hosts are not saints either, we are allowed to be pissed off by our guests.

Yes of course kendodd. I didn't mean to suggest you weren't! Was more thinking of those for whom being pissed off morphs into a reason why they should be sent back to where they came from (usually people who haven't actually hosted but heard second hand). You absolutely shouldn't have to be a saint about it. It's already pretty saintly to have got involved, to be fair.

Very true kudos to anybody who had a go - they have a better heart than me.

But @Kendodd , you haven’t been complaining about ‘your guests’ but about Ukrainian refugees as a body, descending upon the UK to take advantage, and it’s really ugly reading.

I am quite disappointed the thread has been allowed to run with no input from MNHQ, although some deletions were finally made.

'42% were employed in the UK, up from 9% in April. Of these 42%, 63% said they had a permanent job, and 25% a temporary job. The most common sectors of work were accommodation or food service (29%), manufacturing (8%), and wholesale and retail trade (8%);
among adults with their highest level of qualification gained outside of the UK, 43% said employers generally did not recognise their qualifications when applying for jobs (25% did generally recognise them, and 29% said they did not know;
other major barriers to employment were reported to be respondents’ English language skills not meeting the job requirements (58%), and not being able to find a job that suited their skills (24%).'
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/qa-the-uk-and-the-ukraine-refugee-situation/
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