To think boys shouldn't be in women's toilets

[verazayac]

...even if he's with his gay.

Just been to the shopping centre with toddler DD, she told me she needs the toilet so I took her, the women’s toilets are in a different place to the men's, I saw 2 girls with a teenage boy, I would guess between 16-18, they told him to go in with them as they didn't know where the men’s toilets were and told him he's gay and with friends anyway so he can't be accused of being a creep. I was a bit , I hurried DD and whilst we were washing our hands a few women did come in and look at him but didn't say anything.

Aibu to think he shouldn't have gone in the women's toilets even if he's gay and with friends?

That's ridiculous. Silly woman, a 7 year old boy is a small child and there's no issue with him being in female toilets with his mum. I have no problem with primary aged boys being in the ladies. I'm very GC and believe I'm single sex spaces and all that stuff but young boys are vulnerable as well. My son is 7 and when he's older depending where we are I'd either tell him to use the men's and wait outside for him or I would tell him to use the disabled. Cue people telling me how awful I am for telling him to do that but my son's safety is my priority.

What is it with Mumsnet and toilets?

And this is how women’s boundaries get eroded all the time.

If he needed to pee the point is he needs to pee in the bathroom allocated for men.

I don’t care what they do in France, this is the U.K. and the fact is that statistically speaking assaults and sexual offences (incl flashing, video cameras in loos etc) occur in greater numbers in mixed sex bathrooms/ changing facilities.
Loos are separated by sex in order to allow women and girls dignity, privacy and safety. So if there’s a rule then that needs to be adhered to rather than saying ‘well in this case it’s fine…’
Stop shaming women who care about maintaining single sex spaces. It doesn’t make you ‘cooler’. It just makes you shitter at having the back of other women, including ones more vulnerable than you are.

There was a 10 year old in the changing room at dds swimming. He was commenting on his sister’s body (her breasts) which I found creepy and uncomfortable. The mother was there laughing along but the little girl wasn’t laughing. I took dd to a cubicle after that.

Yet another male invading a female space. No male over 8 years old should be in a female only toilet with or without anyone else. Disabled boys over 8 should be in disabled toilet with a carer if need be.

I don't love it, but probably do think that having two female friends to 'vouch' for him did offer some fairly significant mitigation.

I have "a gay"! Doesn't everyone have a gay? 😂

Purplefoxes

Have you been holidaying in Africa?😂

He's 9 and with his mum, hardly the same thing.

No, he should not have been in the female toilet. It's not OUR problem if he's afraid to use the gents.

I think a 9 year old with his mom is very different to a 16-18 year old with his friends

Stop press teens are not always sensible...
They were being idiotic and probably clueless about the wider context, and ideally someone should have pointed that out to them.

Yeah I agree. When I used to work with children I didn’t let the primary aged boys go in the men’s toilet. They went in the women’s with me.

But he self idenitfied as female and used the pronoun she and her - there is a body of opinion which would say that he had every right to be in the female toilets.

Am not saying this is right but it is the current thinking

Teens in Being Somewhat Dickish Shocker! 😮😮😮

Not "all the time" in France; there are unisex (mixed sex) public toilets/lavatories on the Autoroutes and in some low-budget campgrounds and caravan parks - basically places where people who use them (are assumed to) agree that they put up with the inconvenience and danger in order to keep the budget as low as possible. But even that is changing now as consciousness is raised that it's women unfairly paying a disproportionate price for the cheap rates.

There's a big difference between clearly labelled unisex/mixed toilets as they exist in some specific contexts in France and other places versus toilets labelled men's and women's. Of course anyone can use a clearly-labelled unisex/mixed sex toilet. But if the toilet is labelled MEN or WOMEN, it's a different story.

We don't have to wait for someone to "do anything dodgy" to speak out for single sex spaces. Women and girls are not acceptable collateral damage. Do you even know anything about the history of how these spaces came to be and why they were and are essential for women and girls to participate in public life? There's absolutely no reason why facilities can't be mixed sex, if we can get to a situation where men reliably do not and will not take advantage of women and women aren't routinely traumatised by male violence. If you think the UK - or whatever country you live in - is there already, please do post the evidence.

"There was a 10 year old in the changing room at dds swimming. He was commenting on his sister’s body (her breasts) which I found creepy and uncomfortable."

10 year old boys shouldn't be in the female changing room. I think primary age is ok in toilets as long as they are with a parent.

Do you have sons? Would you send your 8 or even 10 year old son into the mens toilets alone at say a motorway services? Disabled toilets are often locked and need a RADAR key - I’m going to have to get a key for my autistic 9 year old child fairly soon, but even if he was entirely neurotypical (and thus not entitled to a RADAR key) there is absolutely no way he’d be going into some mens toilets alone - at a small cafe or something then yes, at a football stadium or motorway services or theme park absolutely not.

He’s a child, he’s not commenting on bodies/looking under doors/remotely threatening anyone, nobody is showing any body parts outside of a cubicle and he’s accompanied by a woman. Any adult woman who is actually threatened or offended by having a prepubescent child in the same hand washing space quite frankly needs to get a bloody grip. Clearly the 16-18 year old in the OP was inappropriate, he’s a grown man physically, but 8 is awfully young to start accusing boys of invading female spaces.

Maybe there needs to be a flow chart in the door .
Do you have a penis >yes > are you over the age of 12 > yes > Please use the mens toilet .

On MN? Certainly. AIBU is full of obtuse replies on a variety of topics.

A m DCs went int appt sec toilet once they were shed 8 and above.

Accidentally posted

All my DCs went into appropriate sex labelled toilet aged 8 upward. I stood outside if I couldn't accompany them.

Different if you have child with significant SEN

Teenage girls and this 16-18 year old boy/ man were wrong to do this

If they says identifies as a woman that would have been far More complicated an answer
But "he's gay" (someone's sexuality) is irrelevant

Give them an inch this time and they'll take a mile next time. Better to maintain clear boundaries.

That's a myth. Most toilets in France are sex-segregated like everywhere else.

And if they do, they’re not gonna say so on here. 🤷‍♂️