Are people on public transport just generally rude in London?

[ThatFridayFeeling11]

I live in Essex and went on the train to London last weekend. Dh and I took our two children aged 1 and 4. We go up to London quite a lot to see friends, visit places and we normally drive and just take advantage of any free weekend parking outside the congestion zone. But last weekend we thought we'd give thr trains a go. The vibe on trains really changes once you get into London and there's a general rudeness and indifference. I'm not saying that people should give you any special treatment because you've got a baby and young child but a little consideration would have been nice. On the dlr, nobody offered their seat even though i was holding a baby and very obviously wobbling all over the place.

One of the lifts was broken at a station so dh carried the pram down some steps and I took the children down the escalator. I had dd in my arms and ds holding my hand. A man pushed past to overtake us and walk down the escalator and nearly made ds topple over. Ok, I get people do that on busy working days, but on a Saturday afternoon?!

And when we did manage to get into another lift at a different station, 3 men got out and said to us to give the lift a few minutes airing time as they'd been smoking substances in there.

There were many moments similar to this during our day out. Maybe we were just unlucky but it really put me off going on public transport in London with young children. It has left me with the impression that it's just every man/woman for him/her self. We're from SE Essex so not exactly a sheltered, rural place. AIBU over this or can anyone relate?

Well it sounds like the men in the lift were pretty considerate... Giving you fair warning and all.

No I can't really relate op. But it's public transport. If you need a seat, ask for one. Why didn't you? People keep to themselves- headphones in, nose in a book. They probably didn't even see you.

And on the escalators keep your son to the right and people won't have to push past him.

Nope. I’ve had the opposite experience. People falling over themselves to offer me a seat when pregnant/ holding a baby, and people always offer to help with the pushchair.

I've experienced quite the opposite too. In London I always got offered a seat when I was pregnant or had small children. People generally helpful and nice, they just tend to keep themselves to themselves as much as possible. Moving out to the home counties however, I found myself quite shocked to be ignored trying to get two toddlers onto a bus, no one holding shop doors open when I clearly had a baby in a sling and toddler in a pushchair, lots of scrumming to get on buses, etc.
Londoners get an unfair bad rep.

I always found buses better when my DC were little. A lot less steps for starters! They also felt more child friendly too somehow

Yes, they are.
queuing doesn’t seem to be a thing.

I've also had the opposite experience. Offers of help with carrying luggage up stairs and offers of seats too.

I was travelling alone, but I can imagine it would be much more difficult and stressful with small children in tow.

Not noticed it on trains but the drivers as soon as you get on the north circular are brutal. Every man for him or herself!

I've always had the opposite experience. People always offering me seats when I was pregnant/with babies, always someone around to help me carry the pram up the stairs, etc. My children still regularly have people give up their seats for them.

A decade ago (when I lived in london) I would have agreed with you. However, I visited for the first time in years this summer, for the first time with young DC and my sister and I couldn't get over how nice everyone was? We thought something had happened in the intervening years (covid?) that made all these people so helpful and polite on the tube. It was good experience after good experience and so many people offering up their seats - we were slightly gobsmacked but it was lovely. Like being in Ireland or somewhere where people are nice/helpful. Very refreshing for london. Perhaps it's luck of the draw?

I'm a Londoner. If a someone with children (plural), a large suitcase, or a guide dog is blocking the way, you wait. You do NOT push past. For reasons of safety. If you are late for your train... well be more on time. Only dickheads (not something that is limited to Londoners) push past, it's a dickhead thing not a London thing per se. I note that almost all of the people I've ever seen trying to push past when it's not safe or reasonable to do so are... you guessed it... men.

However in practice learning to keep right or use the lift (where one is available) is good advice for your own safety and that of the child because it is the 'rule' and there are too many of these dickheads about who care for no-one but themselves.

I do note that the signs saying to keep right are not very obvious either and "don't push past if your way is blocked" should be equally large and obvious. TfL should do better. London has a lot of new residents and tourists and they're not mindreaders.

Any public transportation is tricky with a pushchair and little ones. But I don't find London any worse. I can tell you I was literally shoved aside when queuing for a taxi in Spain while pregnant and with my not yet walking toddler (is that an oxymoron)? No one helped when I was queuing elsewhere when the pushchair fell backwards as I had too many things hanging off it - my child was in it and all anyone did was gawp. So much for a child friendly country - not at all. I didn't even try to attempt the subway there.

On the tube you need to stand on the right, so that people can pass on the left. by the sounds of it you may have been taking up the whole step if ds was next to you. I would have put ds on the next step in front of me so people could still pass. Having the baby in a sling also makes things easier.

I meant on the escalator to the tube.

"I'm not saying that people should give you any special treatment because you've got a baby and young child but a little consideration would have been nice."

So, you are then. Not a problem, but don't pretend you weren't expecting special treatment.

"On the dlr, nobody offered their seat even though i was holding a baby and very obviously wobbling all over the place."

Most people are listening to music or playing on their phone. You could have asked someone in one of the seats near the doors if they wouldn't mind letting you sit down. I've never not seen someone jump up when actually asked.

You had kids, so your reason was obvious, but anyone who has a less obvious reason, you can request special cards from TfL to show to demonstrate you need a seat more than other people.

"One of the lifts was broken at a station so dh carried the pram down some steps and I took the children down the escalator."

That's unfortunate. Sometimes when stations temporarily stop being step-free, you don't get enough notice to re-plan your journey properly. What I would say is that if your DH had needed help, or if you'd been on your own, someone would have helped you carry the pram. That's the one thing we're very good at in London - helping people with prams or suitcases without being asked.

I've helped carry many a pram in my day.

"I had dd in my arms and ds holding my hand."

The way you describe it, that's not safe at all. You need to be holding the handrail. If you couldn't get down the escalator without holding the handrail, you should have asked station staff for help (if there were any) or made an inconvenient detour to a step-free station and transferred to the bus.

I'm not saying this to be mean; I'm saying this because so many people have accidents on that thing each year. In pretty much all cases, it's because they've been travelling without gripping onto the side. It would have been horrific if you and/or DS had fallen. Please don't be tempted to do that again!

In London, you stand on the right, gripping the handrail, so people can move at high speed on the left without knocking you over. It's not a stand in the middle hands-free job. Even if someone had been walking slowly down the left, hugging the left, I can see how that could have made DS unstable if holding onto you and nothing else, with you holding onto DD.

"A man pushed past to overtake us and walk down the escalator and nearly made ds topple over. Ok, I get people do that on busy working days, but on a Saturday afternoon?!"

People are always busy in London, all of the time. Saturday afternoon is busy for many different reasons.

"And when we did manage to get into another lift at a different station, 3 men got out and said to us to give the lift a few minutes airing time as they'd been smoking substances in there."

Sounds pretty convenient for a bunch of druggies, TBH! No one ever gives me notice! Just being unhelpfully blasé about it - I can understand why this freaked you out.

"There were many moments similar to this during our day out. Maybe we were just unlucky but it really put me off going on public transport in London with young children. It has left me with the impression that it's just every man/woman for him/her self. We're from SE Essex so not exactly a sheltered, rural place. AIBU over this or can anyone relate?"

To an extent, yes. Public transport in London is absolutely great unless you need step-free access, then it's suddenly shitty. It's the absolute worst for wheelchair users though - I've seen many not get onto a bus because parents have refused to collapse their prams. And I've heard many stories of wheelchair users turning up at a station and - just like in your experience - suddenly finding the advertised lift is out of order, so they can't get off the platform. I freely admit London transport is only excellent if you have no mobility needs, and that's not an acceptable standard to have.

Holding onto two kids yourself is what made your travel so miserable. It would have helped if you'd had a sling for DD, I think.

Incidentally, what do you mean about the vibe on trains? Were you travelling via national rail rather than the underground, overground and DLR? National rail is a different kettle of fish. The gaps between those trains and the platforms are insane in places - I'm always terrified as I jump down, or try to climb up. There is a very different feel to national rail than the rest of the network. Personally, I avoid it as much as possible.

@LazyLikeSundayMorning when I was pregnant and commuting i actually found it was always young men that would offer up their seats far more than women. The older men were the worst for pretending to read their papers and not see the bump though.

I've lived in London throughout having 2 children. We've been on trains, tube and buses loads and I've always had the opposite experience. I always remark to DH how having children has made me realise how kind strangers are!

Chonfox, Your post made me smile and reminisce, I'm Irish living in Ireland and used to travel by bus and train when my dc was a baby/toddler, when the bus would pull up the driver would shout 'will I hold the baby or fold the pram', these were country buses that the pram went into the storage space at the side of the bus, when someone with a young child got on the driver was unbelievably helpful, on the city buses they were just as good, always made sure we were sitting before starting to drive, I never stood with a child in bus or train, young people,same age as myself at the time (early 20's) would insist on us sitting as did older folk, often my dc was taken to be nursed by others so I could have a cup of tea on the train, when he started talking and interacting with people it was like everyone wanted to entertain him, I cannot remember a single unassisted journey, stairs weren't an issue because someone would instantly offer to help, help came from teenagers to pensioners, male and female, my dc is 30 now and the memories of those journeys made me smile tonight so thank you and I'm glad you seem to have had similar experiences here in Ireland.

I've found in the week people are very polite and considerate. At the weekend less so as it tends to be tourists/non-Londoners who aren't aware of the social norms e.g. standing to the side to let others off before boarding the train, helping with buggies on the stairs

I haven't found that, OP. When pregnant, I was offered a seat almost every morning on the tube. People were generally kind and considerate.

The only exception recently was a ticket collector at Waterloo who accused me of fare dodging when I tried to buy a ticket. 😡

I've never dodged a fare in my life, and being accused of lying on absolutely no evidence at all really annoyed me. I went to appeal and proved him wrong, but that's not the point. It was nothing more than corporate bullying.

But Londoners in general, are great.

@Chonfox I live in Ireland, we are a friendly bunch aren't we

@Doggydarling I'm laughing at your comment about someone nursing your baby, us Irish are lovely but I think we draw the line at breastfeeding a strangers baby on public transport ☺️

If DS was holding your hand on the escalator, then you’re not ‘on the right’ so can see why someone rushed past you. ‘Pushed past’ you sounds a little far fetched.

No, the opposite. But you do have to teach your children how to be town mice too - stand on the right on escalators, stand to the side to let people off the train first etc.

And I don’t expect adults to give up a seat for kids (but they very often do - almost always in fact)

With kids I generally found people helpful on the tube (buses less so). When I injured my knee and had to hobble around I got some pretty poor treatment, though.

Back in London for a weeks last month after a five-year absence I found people on PT to be as polite as ever, that is, very good. I'm able-bodied and in my late 60s and was, for the first time ever offered a seat. I didn't need it but appreciated the courtesy. And felt ancient.

I'd agree with that. I was on there a few weeks ago.

It's like the run down to turn 1 after the start of an F1 race.