Are people on public transport just generally rude in London?

[ThatFridayFeeling11]

I live in Essex and went on the train to London last weekend. Dh and I took our two children aged 1 and 4. We go up to London quite a lot to see friends, visit places and we normally drive and just take advantage of any free weekend parking outside the congestion zone. But last weekend we thought we'd give thr trains a go. The vibe on trains really changes once you get into London and there's a general rudeness and indifference. I'm not saying that people should give you any special treatment because you've got a baby and young child but a little consideration would have been nice. On the dlr, nobody offered their seat even though i was holding a baby and very obviously wobbling all over the place.

One of the lifts was broken at a station so dh carried the pram down some steps and I took the children down the escalator. I had dd in my arms and ds holding my hand. A man pushed past to overtake us and walk down the escalator and nearly made ds topple over. Ok, I get people do that on busy working days, but on a Saturday afternoon?!

And when we did manage to get into another lift at a different station, 3 men got out and said to us to give the lift a few minutes airing time as they'd been smoking substances in there.

There were many moments similar to this during our day out. Maybe we were just unlucky but it really put me off going on public transport in London with young children. It has left me with the impression that it's just every man/woman for him/her self. We're from SE Essex so not exactly a sheltered, rural place. AIBU over this or can anyone relate?

Yes. !

I am no fan of London in general but I must say my experience of public transport is the opposite of yours. I don’t have children in tow but young men regularly offer me a seat even though I am not (extremely) old or infirm. And if I am carrying a heavy case some helpful chap always comes along and carries it up or down the stairs for me. Where we live, out in the sticks, no one ever offers to carry my case.

No, I find people really helpful, when I was lugging a large case a few weeks ago, I didn’t carry it up or down any steps on the tube, each time some kind random bloke would carry it for me.

My experience of London is very different. I have been offered seats on the tube/buses when my daughter was younger. I've seen folk rallying round to carry a pushchair upstairs, on behalf of someone struggling, and without being prompted. So, I'm always surprised when people slate Londoners for rudeness on PT. Admittedly, you don't see people yarning to each other about the weather, on the tube. I'm guessing this is due to being in a hurry or a personal safety issue. I wouldn't see that as rudeness just a healthy reserve.

The thing I like about London is that people move at a decent pace and people seem aware of their surroundings, so people will move out of each other's way instinctively, so as not to inconvenience other people. I much prefer that to the town where I live where people stop sharply in doorways and at the feet of escalators to marvel at the surroundings. Meanwhile, the body count is piling up behind them. I think that is even more inconsiderate, tbh.

I traveled over from Belfast to attend an OU summer school a few years back. All I had ever heard was how unfriendly people are on London transport. But it was nothing like that for me. People were generally helpful when I was trailing my luggage on and off the train and tube and a couple of people struck up conversations with me (despite my habitually closed body language due to shyness.) I have learned not to generalise!

Igiven how diverse London is compared to the rest of the uk, it's pretty friendly - and it didn't vote for brexit

I had mostly good experiences with one odd exception. Struggling to get my twin buggy over the threshold of a shop with one hand while trying to keep the door open with t'other -and failing.

Behold ! A young woman about 20 apparently coming to my rescue . But no , she ducked under my outstretched arm and carried on into the shop. My flabber was quite gasted I can tell you.

Quite funny . But only in retrospect. You soon suss out the people who don't have kids themselves!

You need to stand to the side on the escalator. You shouldn't be blocking the flow- that's entirely on you if you got knocked.

And your comment that people shouldn't be in a hurry on a Saturday is really cheeky. Many people have work or other places to get to and don't need your permission to be trying to get to said places on time.

My experience has changed after having DS. I find the tube generally ok, with some exceptions, but getting around using only the step free stations is difficult. Often I now have to take the bus, which I’ve come to hate. It’s really stressful because they don’t have enough accessible space so many times I have to allow two or three buses to go past before we can fit on.

Some (not all) drivers are also really inflexible, only letting one pram on when there’s plenty of room for two. I had one case when I was already on the bus and a lady with twins wanted to get on and he wouldn’t allow it. Fortunately the dad was also there and managed to reason with him. They fit in just fine next to my pram - deliberately chosen for being slimline. And this was on an otherwise almost empty bus, so it’s not like there was a great holdup trying to manoeuvre in.

In general, this is just a case for having more accessible space available with fold-down seats. There shouldn’t need to be such competition between wheelchair users and prams. It’s just stressful for everyone - there should be room for all.

On another note, I notice some have said upthread about women with prams having no need for seats. I found this a huge problem when DS was smaller. Fortunately my health has recovered somewhat since, but I had a terrible instrumental birth with awful tearing and PPH. I could barely walk for ages afterwards but still needed to get DS around for various appointments having lost my massive bump and baby on board badge. Total nightmare when you can’t sit - nobody will offer a seat and I was told on more than one occasion very brusquely to get out of the priority seat (which meant I had to stand as I couldn’t leave the pram unattended). I am aware that I probably just should have explained that I needed it, but I was exhausted, hormonal, and unwell.

In Japan the custom is never to sit in a priority seat unless you yourself have a priority need. Even in Tokyo where the underground trains are so busy they push people on to be able to close the doors.

People who live in London are accustomed to it.
People who visit see it for what it is...a lot of angry , rude people.

Yes, there are some helpful people around but few and far between.

London born and bred but moved away years ago.

Over the years, on my visits back to see family,I notice it more and more.

This. I've always been amazed & thankful at the helpfulness of Londoners

Londoner of 5 years here - if it was a Saturday there was a high chance that you encountered a lot of tourists and people from out of town. Not representative of the general London transport-using population.

My friends and Family often come to Oxford street for a day of shopping and complain to me how rude and inconsiderate "London people" are based on their experiences. I keep telling them... "London people" avoid Oxford Street like the plague - it's 99% visitors from smaller cities and towns there!

I moved from Norfolk and it shocked me how strangers in London were so much less hostile. In my hometown strangers would often stare or take the piss. Here people either have a chat or just plain leave you alone - bliss.

I'm sorry you had a bad time OP. I hope it doesn't put you off coming again. I recommend staying for a few days in the week and exploring some of the North of the city.

I find it very hard to believe you had closed body language.
You're Irish, full of cheer and the gift of the gab at all times 😉😂

@Iwanttoholdyourham Good god, you have a lot invested in this post. Pulling her up on every single detail. People are rude on the tube, you know it and i know it, years living there and no one talks, smiles, looks out for one another, i thank my lucky stars I'm back living in Dublin and you can sit on the bus/train and people strike up conversations with you and are usually always kind offering seats to older people or women with buggies and not pretending they cant see them because of earphones or phones...tbh its the one of many things i don't miss about London. Now come on back and pick my thread to pieces because i know you want to 😂

@Dinosaurus86 some of your experiences sound so stressful. I completely get where you're coming from with the post natal issues. I also had a forceps and a 3L pph with my first. Walking was horrific afterwards, I struggled to breath through the blood loss and the pain was terrible. You were very brave to be going on public transport. Different situation, but I remember about a week after I gave birth, I had to go to the pharmacy and there was a man behind me telling me to hurry up. Not in a horrible way but not friendly either. If I'd had the energy, I would have told him exactly what I'd just been through in every gruesome detail!

I think it's just important for everyone to remember that there are some things we can't see in others and to just show a little bit of consideration. For instance , I did keep my son to the right as I know this is the rule on the escalators but he does have adhd and is by nature, all over the place. I could only do my best. I still don't think the man pushing past my son needed to be quite so get out of my way type thing around a young child. Although, I guess I don't know his reasoning, maybe he was trying to get to an emergency for all I know.

@InPraiseOfBacchus absolutely doesn't put me off. I really love London and visit at least twice a month. It was just the public transport that surprised me on Saturday. But hopefully it was just a one off.

Interesting what you've said about Norfolk. Some of my family moved from Essex to Norfolk years ago and said how some rural communities could be quite unfriendly and indifferent. So it's in all places.

And yes, totally agree with exploring the north of the city. We went to Walthamstow a few weeks ago and I love that area, especially around the village. And I have to say, everyone that day was super friendly and helpful but maybe it makes a difference not being in central London? 🤔

@fairycakes1234 No, I don't know that people are rude on the tube. My experience is that there is a set of rules on the tube, and your experience will depend on whether you follow those rules or not.

In Walthamstow you were surrounded by people who actually live in London. In the centre, on a Saturday you'll have been surrounded by either out of towners or Londoners who had somewhere they had to be. The friendly East 17ers does reinforce what a lot of folk have said here!
It's funny how much what we are all used to reflects in how we feel about somewhere like central London though. To me it is far less rude to all sit quietly in our own little bubbles than to start up a conversation with a random fellow commuter on the bus. The latter would be quite intrusive to me.

We commuted into London, until Covid. If we got on a packed train, going home, a man always offered me his seat ! (I’m middle aged)

Nursing doesn't generally mean breastfeeding in Ireland, both men and women nurse children, I would explain it as holding the child affectionately while interacting pleasantly. It's been an acceptable term used for generations.

I certainly do but not the OP (nor Downton Abbey residents) 😊

I've been to London quite a lot and find Londoners quite unusual. They completely ignore everything and everyone and travel in their own little bubble but if/when they do notice someone needs help they go above and beyond to help you. London is the only place I've ever been where, as a disabled person, I have never had to ask for assistance. People instinctively offer a hand or arm getting off the tube if there's a big gap.

I think people from London are particularly friendly. However, commuting around London is stressful, so it doesn't bring the best out in people!

Regarding 'up to London' and 'down from London' - anyone familiar with the railway system will know that any line running towards London is the UP line and any line running away from London is the DOWN line!