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Original poster

They want me to return my wages

166 replies

Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:17

Posting here for traffic as I need urgent advice please

I left my previous job over a month ago, I gave in my notice during August. As I worked in a school I timed the notice so I wouldn’t have to return in September, but I gave my correct notice and followed the correct procedures. I was still in my probation period so it was just 2 weeks notice expected.

I have now received an email from HR stating they have overpaid me my last month wage and want it back in full or they will take me to court because I haven’t worked my notice period therefore breached my contract.

1- I could not have physically worked my notice period as the school was closed for summer
2- I’m on a pro rata pay so a wage month is from the 10th-10th, I physically worked until the 22nd July when the school closed for summer. After that and before my last day of my notice period (1st) I was still technically employed and wouldn’t have been entitled to the pay up to the 10th August, is that correct? They did not pay me anything from the 10thAugust to my last day although I was still technically an employee and hadn’t handed in my notice at that point.

Im now very worried about it going to court because I’m in severe financial difficulty right now, to the point where I haven’t eaten all weekend so my children can. I can’t spare a months wage to give back to them. They won’t offer a small payment plan where I pay what I can afford each month either.
can anyone advise if they are correct or if I can challenge this due to not being able to work my notice period as they were closed? I will attempt citizens advice but I’m hoping someone here will have the knowledge to help. Thank you

OP posts:
Maryminx · 11/10/2022 18:24

Ask for a breakdown of the figures.
It does seem that u will have to pay back.
Tell them that are experiencing financial difficulties but offer to pay back £5 per week. They are trying to frighten u with Court action! It will cost them quite abit to lodge their claim. No magistrate, knowing u have offered to repay a small amount weekly will see u in a bad light.
please do use food banks, they are there or help. Good luck x

Fightingbackwithhappiness · 11/10/2022 18:28

Go to citizen’s advice, they will
be able to help you

ImStillMe · 11/10/2022 18:47

I started working in a school in June of one year and left several years later in at the end of an August. I was then surprised to receive a letter from the County telling me I owed several hundred pounds and threatening me with court action for non-payment.

At first I thought it was am error but it turns out that the anniversary of my start date was significant regarding accrual of wages.

So I had to pay it back. I really wasn't expecting that. Iit could have been very difficult for another family.

Mfsf · 11/10/2022 19:00

You did nut accrued enough holiday time but they need to offer you a payment plan . Send a registered letter asking for a breakdown of what you owe and explains why you cannot pay . They should stop being so vile

Mollymoostoo · 11/10/2022 19:14

It sounds like they have taken your yearly wage, plus your annual leave entitlement and put the whole sum together, then divided this into 12 monthly payments so you are paid throughout the year.
This could mean that you have been overpaid due to not having accrued enough annual leave.

Check if your wages include your annual leave and ask for a breakdown of how much you have earned and been overpaid. Also ask for a payment plan and state that if they demand this in a lump sum you will contact your MP as you are struggling to feed your family and this will put you in extreme hardship.
I'm not sure if you have started work or the reasons for leaving the job, but I would recommend you get help from CAB to prove you do not have the funds to pay this back in one go.

NippySweetie16 · 11/10/2022 19:42

The employer must issue a contract with full terms and conditions to every employee. If they haven't given you a contract they are breaking the law.

Please go to Citizens Advice - take it you're not in a union? If you are, that's your first stop.

Try to stay calm. The treat of court action is there to panic you - they've broke the law and are not on strong ground.

Isinglass20 · 11/10/2022 19:42

Before accepting any job offer you should ask about terms and conditions and ask for a copy if not given when job accepted as it’s a legally binding contract. Some employers‘forget’ allowing them to claim t & cs not discussed in interview and it’s your word against the employers. And you need a good reference

purpleshortcake2021 · 11/10/2022 20:58

They should have issued you with an employment contract. I’m not sure they would want to go to court where they would be asked to produce your signed contract - which clearly they don’t have
www.gaphr.co.uk/why-you-should-issue-contract-of-employment/

Grannyto2 · 11/10/2022 22:02

I am more concerned that you are not eating so your children can eat. I think this takes priority over paying back money you may or may not owe. No court in the land will make you pay if you are unable to feed yourself How can you care for your children if you are hungry? Please get advice regarding benefits you can get, food banks etc as a matter of urgency. I wish you well. What has this country come to?

Solonge · 11/10/2022 22:26

Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:32

So they can penalise me for not working my notice period when they weren’t even open for me to work it?
I was never given a proper contract just a sheet of paper with my job title and hours I was asked to sign, but they never made this clause clear to me or I would have handed in my notice during July.
its paid in arrears so the August pay was for July, which is what they’re asking for.

You probably wouldnt have got a contract until the end of your trial period. I am assuming you worked there for less than three months as that is the norm for trial periods.

NickyT64 · 11/10/2022 22:35

I am so sorry things are so hard for you at the moment. This added stress is something you could really do without. Have you considered maybe using your local food bank? You can not go without food. How will you look after your children if you are literally starving. I hope you don’t mind me asking you tho, and I promise I am not meaning anything disrespectful here- why have you left the job with the school? Do you have another job to go to?

keeprunning55 · 11/10/2022 23:08

I advise going to Citizens Advice.

VanGoghsDog · 11/10/2022 23:15

Solonge · 11/10/2022 22:26

You probably wouldnt have got a contract until the end of your trial period. I am assuming you worked there for less than three months as that is the norm for trial periods.

Show quote history

Legally a contract has to be issued on day one. There is nothing about a "trial period" that changes that.

VanGoghsDog · 11/10/2022 23:18

Maryminx · 11/10/2022 18:24

Ask for a breakdown of the figures.
It does seem that u will have to pay back.
Tell them that are experiencing financial difficulties but offer to pay back £5 per week. They are trying to frighten u with Court action! It will cost them quite abit to lodge their claim. No magistrate, knowing u have offered to repay a small amount weekly will see u in a bad light.
please do use food banks, they are there or help. Good luck x

This is a civil matter. Magistrates hear criminal matters.

VanGoghsDog · 11/10/2022 23:21

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 10/10/2022 23:43

Ok so you were employed there for 4 months up to the end of August so I am guessing you started at the beginning of May (correct me if I am wrong). I am also assuming that you have no entitlement to termtime holiday and all Paid Leave is assigned 6be happening during the school holidays.

TTO contracts tend to have you paid in 12 equal instalments to help you with budgeting. There are 39 weeks in the school year and your pro-rata legal entitlement to Leave is a total of 4.7 weeks across the year (accrued according to weeks worked so 0.12 weeks of leave accrues for each week worked) - the rest of the school holidays are unpaid.

So in May you will have worked for 4 weeks, the week at end May, beginning June being half term. You had accrued 0.48 weeks of Leave but had a week for half term so were half a week in deficit at that point. However they only would have paid you for 3.64 out of your total 43.7 week (39+4.7) contract.

In June you would have again worked 4 weeks, accrued 0.48 weeks of Paid Leave entitlement (nearly paying back the May half term) and been paid for another 3.64 weeks.

In July you will have worked for 3 weeks, accrued 0.36 weeks worth of Paid Leave (=1.7 days) and been paid for 3.64 weeks.

You were entitled to consider yourself on Paid Leave for the first 1.7 days of the summer holidays, after which you did no further work so accrued no futher entitlements.

At that point though you had been paid for 10.92 weeks of your 43.7 week contract, and had completed a total of 12.36 weeks so your August pay should have covered 1.44 weeks, so should have been 39.6% of your the preceding monthly pay packets. If they paid you for August in full then yes you owe them some of that money back. Only pay them back the post-tax,NI&pension amount though- claiming back those amounts is their problem.

The leave entitlement is 5.6 weeks, pro rated for the start and end of employment (in this case, both within the same year).

Other than that, I suspect you're on the right track.

Luckycatt · 11/10/2022 23:21

What does your 'contract' say about your notice period? Afaik, if the place of work is closed during your notice period, it still counts as your notice period. People don't have to go and work weekends when the notice period is a week, for example. Not your problem if they've closed.

I really hope you get some proper legal advice on this. If the last date you got paid for is July 10th, it doesn't make sense that you owe them money if your leaving date was 1st sept.

JustBeKinder · 12/10/2022 06:22

I was overpaid in a previous job, it was their mistake and we worked out a repayment plan which would seem in your case to be the most reasonable solution which a good HR department should be willing to suggest and implement

Rosehugger · 12/10/2022 06:30

^I was never given a proper contract just a sheet of paper with my job title and hours I was asked to sign, but they never made this clause clear to me or I would have handed in my notice during July.
its paid in arrears so the August pay was for July, which is what they’re asking for^

I would say if you haven't got a contract nor have been made aware of any terms and conditions which may apply to your employment then they cannot enforce terms they have just decided apply now. But speak to ACAS.

Percyprod · 12/10/2022 08:08

As a teacher I can say it’s well known that your notice must be worked before any holidays, common sense really

MistyRock · 12/10/2022 08:53

I worked at a school, as a helper, I was paid hours worked plus holidays, divided by 12. Presumably that is pro rata. I did almost a full year and handed my notice in 4 weeks before I was due to start after the summer holidays. I got my full pay. Presumably if I handed my notice in before the school holidays I wouldn't have got my last wage.

Original poster
Honeybear58 · 12/10/2022 09:05

How on earth could I have worked my notice in advance of even knowing I was leaving Percy!? Common sense shows I couldn’t have.

i still haven’t had a response, do I ignore it and continue to wait or do I email again? I don’t want to implicate myself by constantly pushing for communication and chasing them, but I don’t want to leave it hanging unresolved either. Thanks for those who have replied with kind words and advice.

OP posts:
pollymere · 12/10/2022 11:02

In teaching, you don't get annual leave separately as it's assumed you take it when the school is closed. With pro rata, the salary is usually paid over twelve months even if you only work ten of them. I would suspect if you are leaving then you may have been overpaid as August would've been based on your staying in the role. I would work out your hourly rate and how many hours you've worked since being there to see what you should've been paid. If the school is closed during your notice period though, you have "worked" your notice. Some schools have rules about the latest possible dates for notice though so it may be that you needed to hand your notice in by early July. I got overpaid when working as a TA and got to pay it back in installments. Talk about a payment plan and they won't be able to CCJ you as you'll have shown willingness to pay. Even if it's only ten pounds a week.

Choconut · 12/10/2022 11:06

Have you asked them how you could have worked your notice period if the school wasn't open?

MistyRock · 12/10/2022 11:58

Honeybear58 · 12/10/2022 09:05

How on earth could I have worked my notice in advance of even knowing I was leaving Percy!? Common sense shows I couldn’t have.

i still haven’t had a response, do I ignore it and continue to wait or do I email again? I don’t want to implicate myself by constantly pushing for communication and chasing them, but I don’t want to leave it hanging unresolved either. Thanks for those who have replied with kind words and advice.

Ask them for a copy of your contract. If they do not send this then I'm presuming they haven't really got anything to prove you've been over paid amd therefore no evo for court.

MistyRock · 12/10/2022 11:58

Sorry about the typos my phone is half dead.