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Original poster

They want me to return my wages

166 replies

Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:17

Posting here for traffic as I need urgent advice please

I left my previous job over a month ago, I gave in my notice during August. As I worked in a school I timed the notice so I wouldn’t have to return in September, but I gave my correct notice and followed the correct procedures. I was still in my probation period so it was just 2 weeks notice expected.

I have now received an email from HR stating they have overpaid me my last month wage and want it back in full or they will take me to court because I haven’t worked my notice period therefore breached my contract.

1- I could not have physically worked my notice period as the school was closed for summer
2- I’m on a pro rata pay so a wage month is from the 10th-10th, I physically worked until the 22nd July when the school closed for summer. After that and before my last day of my notice period (1st) I was still technically employed and wouldn’t have been entitled to the pay up to the 10th August, is that correct? They did not pay me anything from the 10thAugust to my last day although I was still technically an employee and hadn’t handed in my notice at that point.

Im now very worried about it going to court because I’m in severe financial difficulty right now, to the point where I haven’t eaten all weekend so my children can. I can’t spare a months wage to give back to them. They won’t offer a small payment plan where I pay what I can afford each month either.
can anyone advise if they are correct or if I can challenge this due to not being able to work my notice period as they were closed? I will attempt citizens advice but I’m hoping someone here will have the knowledge to help. Thank you

OP posts:
waterwitch · 10/10/2022 17:46

Ask for a breakdown then take it to citizen’s advice. Given they haven’t actually provided you with a contract, I’m not sure they have anything to take to court anyway, but I’m not a lawyer. Sure CAB can help you though. Good luck

Cailleachian · 10/10/2022 17:46

The right to a contract, (or "written statement of employment particulars’, setting out your main terms of work, such as wages, hours and holiday rights, how much notice you will be given to end your contract, and information on sick pay) is a day one workers right.

If you can prove that you were never given this, they will lose at court immediately.

See here
www.gaphr.co.uk/why-you-should-issue-contract-of-employment/

If you are a member of a union you have access to free legal advice, if you arent, get some legal support from a free 30 mins meeting with a solicitor (and join a union!)

AloysiusBear · 10/10/2022 17:48

I think you have misunderstood how a term time contract works. You don't get paid to not work during the holidays - you are on leave then. And the contract is usually set up so that you accrue enough holiday through a full year to be on paid holiday during the holidays.

Otherwise TAs everywhere could work half a summer term, give notice, be paid during the holiday and effectively have been paid loads for that short period without working most of it.

VanGoghsDog · 10/10/2022 17:51

Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:32

So they can penalise me for not working my notice period when they weren’t even open for me to work it?
I was never given a proper contract just a sheet of paper with my job title and hours I was asked to sign, but they never made this clause clear to me or I would have handed in my notice during July.
its paid in arrears so the August pay was for July, which is what they’re asking for.

When they are "not open" you are on annual leave. If you've not accrued enough leave of course you won't be paid. You don't just get paid for nothing or everyone would just resign at the end of July.

You need to ask them to explain it better because you haven't understood the problem so it's unlikely anyone here will either.

girlmom21 · 10/10/2022 17:54

If you don't need their reference let them take you to court. They probably won't bother.

VanGoghsDog · 10/10/2022 17:54

They're pretty unlikely to go to court though. More likely send a few solicitor's letters then go quiet.

Original poster
Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:58

It’s the risk of a CCJ that I’m concerned about. I do understand the issue, they’re claiming I didn’t work my notice period not that I hadn’t earned enough to be entitled to pay during August. As when I began the job they said every employee will receive full monthly wage regardless of accrued hours. So if that’s the cause of this they never explained it nor put it into a contract. I’ve worked in schools all my adult life and this has never happened to me when leaving previous jobs over half terms. I appreciate all replies

OP posts:
AloysiusBear · 10/10/2022 17:59

It's essentially a debt, so non payment of it could impact your credit rating.

Schools have no money at all, they will probably sell it to a debt collection agency to process. They won't just leave it.

Your best bet is to offer to pay it back over the year.

VanGoghsDog · 10/10/2022 18:00

Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:58

It’s the risk of a CCJ that I’m concerned about. I do understand the issue, they’re claiming I didn’t work my notice period not that I hadn’t earned enough to be entitled to pay during August. As when I began the job they said every employee will receive full monthly wage regardless of accrued hours. So if that’s the cause of this they never explained it nor put it into a contract. I’ve worked in schools all my adult life and this has never happened to me when leaving previous jobs over half terms. I appreciate all replies

No, you clearly don't understand it. Which is completely understandable as they've not given you a contract.

Ask them for a copy of your terms and which part they are saying you have breached.

Snoken · 10/10/2022 18:00

AloysiusBear · 10/10/2022 17:48

I think you have misunderstood how a term time contract works. You don't get paid to not work during the holidays - you are on leave then. And the contract is usually set up so that you accrue enough holiday through a full year to be on paid holiday during the holidays.

Otherwise TAs everywhere could work half a summer term, give notice, be paid during the holiday and effectively have been paid loads for that short period without working most of it.

This is correct. If you only worked there for 4 months, and had 1.5 of those months off you won’t have accrued nearly enough annual leave to cover that, so you probably owe them around a full months pay.

Also, why did you leave a job when you now can’t afford to eat?

Bessica1970 · 10/10/2022 18:00

Why didn’t you hand your notice in earlier? It’s a pretty shitty thing to hand notice in for a school job in the holidays. How did you think they were going to manage to replace you?
mad PP have said you hadn’t accrued enough holidays to be paid for the holidays in your notice period, and by giving notice during the holidays there was probably no one there to pick up on this.

Ea134 · 10/10/2022 18:00

From working in a school, as far as I understand it, we receive 12 weeks paid holiday and the rest is unpaid leave. So it could be that the time that you think is your notice period is actually unpaid leave so you haven’t technically worked it?

Comtesse · 10/10/2022 18:02

Call the ACAS helpline and ask for their help in understanding this. Pretty weird that they didn’t give you a proper contract.

Aprilx · 10/10/2022 18:02

Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 17:58

It’s the risk of a CCJ that I’m concerned about. I do understand the issue, they’re claiming I didn’t work my notice period not that I hadn’t earned enough to be entitled to pay during August. As when I began the job they said every employee will receive full monthly wage regardless of accrued hours. So if that’s the cause of this they never explained it nor put it into a contract. I’ve worked in schools all my adult life and this has never happened to me when leaving previous jobs over half terms. I appreciate all replies

They haven’t worded it very well or you are misunderstanding it. You surely did not expect to work a few months and then continue to take pay through the summer holidays before resigning in time for September? You should ask for the calculations but it is very probably the case that you simply haven’t accrued enough working days to cover the summer holidays pay.

VanGoghsDog · 10/10/2022 18:03

Ea134 · 10/10/2022 18:00

From working in a school, as far as I understand it, we receive 12 weeks paid holiday and the rest is unpaid leave. So it could be that the time that you think is your notice period is actually unpaid leave so you haven’t technically worked it?

I don't think you get twelve weeks paid, more like six.

Greyarea12 · 10/10/2022 18:03

You have been paid for holidays that you weren't entitled to because you didn't accrue enough as you were only there for 4 months. Just offer a payment plan. If they don't accept then tell them they will have to take you to court, who will accept a payment plan. Their threat of court is their way of getting you to pay it in full to avoid them having to actually take you to court and pay fees. Its a scare tactic.

AloysiusBear · 10/10/2022 18:05

I think you are looking for any one to tell you you don't have to repay this op.

That's pretty unlikely. You probably do, i would focus on looking for ways to repay it that are manageable for you. Have you got a new job?

girlmom21 · 10/10/2022 18:06

If they didn't give you a contract they can't claim you've breached the terms of it.

Aprilx · 10/10/2022 18:07

girlmom21 · 10/10/2022 18:06

If they didn't give you a contract they can't claim you've breached the terms of it.

They haven’t said she has breached the contract, they have said she has been overpaid.

gogohmm · 10/10/2022 18:07

They have overpaid your annual leave basically, it's the way tto contracts are set up, though this can happen to full time full year staff in any job if you use up lots of annual leave early in your holiday year then quit.

He handled it badly by not explaining however you do owe them money

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 10/10/2022 18:08

Were you paid for the period that you didn't work? Simple question.

pinkpirlie · 10/10/2022 18:13

Note you'd only get a CCJ if they took you to court, they won and then you didn't pay them in the allowable time.
Whilst it is highly unlikely that would happen (ie if they won in court you should pay them), it is better to either negotiate now to a payment plan that will mean you can pay back over time and not have to worry about the immediate (I believe - but happy to be corrected - if they won in court and you didn't pay in full by the settlement date, even if they had agreed to repayments over time it would show as a CCJ).

However, I would still be highlighting the procedural issues to the school that have led you to incorrectly believe that you could do this (however cheeky it was of you).

In future if something seems to good to be true (ie getting paid for 1.5 months for nothing) then it usually is and it would be worth double checking that you understand the situation correctly.

Original poster
Honeybear58 · 10/10/2022 18:13

No I wasn’t paid for it I was paid for July as the wages are worked out 10th-10th so I didn’t get paid for 10th-22nd July which I did work.
I was offered another job and couldn’t pass up on it so it wasn’t done in a malicious way it was to benefit my family, however yes I’m still in poverty as the pay is rubbish.

the email begins with: it has come to our attention you have breached your contract due to not working your notice period. You now owe X.

it’s not that I’m not willing to pay it, I want to make sure it’s correct before I find money I don’t have to pay a debt that may have been sent incorrectly. If I hadn’t worked enough hours they could have told me in the notice email reply and certainly shouldn’t have told us we would get full pay all year if it wasn’t true.

OP posts:
Ea134 · 10/10/2022 18:13

VanGoghsDog · 10/10/2022 18:03

I don't think you get twelve weeks paid, more like six.

Show quote history

You’re right 😂 the 12 weeks is how long they get off in total. We get paid for 5.6 weeks! It’s been a long day!

girlmom21 · 10/10/2022 18:14

@Aprilx they said she breached it by not working her notice