To think WTAF at ‘Bonk for Britain?’

[Upthebracket22]

Anyone seen this? It’s apparently based on a policy from (far right) Hungary where the media were saying that too many women were going to university and thus wouldn’t be having kids!

www.thesun.co.uk/news/20048496/women-tax-cuts-have-children/amp/

Is this only aimed at white women?

One solution to the replacement issue might be a ban on aborting white fetus.

What a racist comment.

Is what aimed at white women?

Jesus Christ. Reading comprehension.

Supporting women having children they want to have is not the same as saying women’s purpose in life is to breed, with no respect for the individual.

the latter is fascist. Take a look at countries that have practiced that ideology, you’ll notice a theme.

Yes. To me. I know full well what part I was replying to, which to paraphrase was ‘other animals don’t question, they breed because it’s the purpose of the species. More is always better!’

Understand nuance and context isn’t your strong point, is it?

Once again, there’s a difference between supporting families, and incentivizing reproduction because it’s a woman’s ‘purpose in life’. One respects individual choice, the other does not.

@FatKyle and if I do is that an issue for you?

In France it is all families, my BIL & SIL have 4 children so pay very little tax. They are also immigrants from North Africa who now have French citizenship. It doesn't promote one ethnicity over another. It is difficult to understand how some people are comparing the policy to the creation of an Aryan nation when there is no differentiation by ethnicity.

So you think that women who are middle earners shouldn't get a tax break to help them have more children and spend time with them.
Whilst you yourself have reproduced, you work part time, under the tax threshold, so that you can claim benefits, increase your income (at the tax payers expense) and get more time to spend with your kids.

Yet you deny that opportunity to middle earners because you need the tax they pay to fund you?

Is that correct?

Can you see anything grabby and unpleasant about that?

Yes. To me. I know full well what part I was replying to, which to paraphrase was ‘other animals don’t question, they breed because it’s the purpose of the species. More is always better!’

You don't seem to have much of a grip on this conversation lark. Whatever. I was clear in what I said. You are having to deliberately miscontrue and misunderstand my words in order to make your point. That should tell you something.

Nuance? I'm not the one calling a tax break suggestion 'fascist'.

And where does this proposal state that it's a 'woman's purpose in life'? Literally no one is saying that. You're just making shit up to get angry about. It's stupid.

No wonder populations are falling given how many seem to think the very idea of procreation is a fascist ideal.

I know, right? Doesn't do much to dispel the idea that feminism is anti-mother.

Feminism is anti-mother. Strange really.

Nor did I. There’s the reading comprehension part again. I wasn’t replying to the initial idea set out, I replying to the statement that ‘our purpose in life is to reproduce’, which is a statement that strips from humankind any semblance of individuality.

I’ve already said why I think the tax break idea is badly thought out. If you want to enable people to have the amount of children they want to have (again, something different to incentivizing reproduction) then a tax break, even one bolstered by a dubious patriotism, is not particularly going to cut it. You’d be better addressing issues such as healthcare and education provision, affordable childcare and housing.

I’m not angry at all. It’s a discussion on a message board, not something that’s inspiring any particular emotion.

I think when one starts accusing people of not having reading comprehension skills, or saying nuance and context isn’t your strong point, is it? demonstrates some level of anger, emotion and overinvestment in a policy that doesn't even exist in the UK. (Sadly).

Eventually, lower populations will be better for everyone, but the problem is how we get from here (10 odd billion) to there (3 or 4 billion).

Not by trying to encourage further population growth I would suggest.

Realistically speaking, it's going to piss off women with three kids when the workmate sitting opposite them has four kids and takes home a shitload more wonga for doing the same job.

I remember being one of two childless women in a team of 12, and it was always us two that ended up picking up the slack as our colleagues couldn't do overtime due to picking up the kids - of course they still expected an equal share in the team bonus when we won a bid.

A few of them had pretty snotty attitudes about how we should be prepared to make sacrifices for the future generation. It didn't go down well when they were posting gym selfies on FB while I was still in the office (presumably having dropped their kids off at DM's house for a few hours).

It would've pissed me off almightily if they'd all been taking home far more than me in spite of already getting the same amount for doing no overtime, and most of them were significantly better off than me already due to having husbands in well paid professional jobs.

Either way, I wouldn't feel particularly secure in today's economic climate with four kids to provide for. Losing one's job and going from a decent wedge of income to benefits wouldn't be a great situation. In a competitive job market a woman with loads of kids is going to have a tough time against candidates with no dependents. We already know this.

That’s observation, not anger. Perhaps for you it would demonstrate that, but no, I’m not angry, emotional, no over-invested.

Like I said, I wasn’t referring to the policy, I was referring to the idea that, in terms of population, more is better, and that the purpose of women is to breed. Personally, I’m a believer in individuals determining their own life’s purpose.

@FatKyle your making a lot of assumptions about me considering you don’t know me. And no it’s not correct but don’t let that stop you.

I'm sure it's not correct. Because that wouldn't be a very nice attitude would it.

Hungary is in a very different situation to the UK. Housing is inexpensive and there are tax breaks and Government loans for families to build their own homes in some circumstances. Childcare is very inexpensive, as is food. Children usually have a paediatrician as their GP who they can see almost immediately when needed. Schools specialising in various subjects can be chosen at 14 and accessed with state funding even if not local. Etc. For all of its faults politically, it is not somewhere that it is extremely hard to afford to raise a family.

What's needed in the UK is proper support for the children who are in existence already.

I was referring to the idea that, in terms of population, more is better, and that the purpose of women is to breed.

But I never said that. You are deliberately misconstruing my words. You are making a strawman argument.

The only people calling women 'breeders' on this thread are the people claiming that others think of women as 'breeders'. It is very weird!

Ironic.

This was the post I was initially replying to. ‘We need people, the more the better’. ‘The whole point of life is to reproduce and survive’.

I did then expand on that, and referenced an idea (read: not one you explicitly stated but that does indeed tie in) that certainly has been voiced, that women have a duty to reproduce for the good of the country.

I did then expand on that, and referenced an idea (read: not one you explicitly stated but that does indeed tie in) that certainly has been voiced, that women have a duty to reproduce for the good of the country

No, you tied that idea in to what I said. It doesn't 'tie in' remotely with my actual words. I was talking about evolution (I clarified this more than once) and you decided that I am some kind of monster who thinks women should be forced to have babies and went on and on about fascism as though that's remotely what I was saying. Fucking sick of people like you. Try having some integrity.