To think WTAF at ‘Bonk for Britain?’

[Upthebracket22]

Anyone seen this? It’s apparently based on a policy from (far right) Hungary where the media were saying that too many women were going to university and thus wouldn’t be having kids!

www.thesun.co.uk/news/20048496/women-tax-cuts-have-children/amp/

This thread is about artificially propping up birth rates to stop populations from shrinking.

I am saying populations should be allowed to shrink and maybe even encouraged to shrink.

Most significant change will be reactive because of supply/demand and costs. At present it is often cheaper to import labour from developing countries so change doesn't happen but it will in future.

Do you think the native population should be replaced by immigration?

I, a childless woman, do not pay taxes to fund your lifestyle preferences. I already pay them in the hope of funding adequate schools and healthcare services.

This policy is crypto-fascism dressed up in pink bows to see what proportion of the population thinks it's ok.

We, mothers and non-mothers alike, should all join together in being VERY suspicious of this even being suggested in the media.

But you do already fund many mother's who deliberately keep their hours down by working part time, pay no tax, and claim benefits. You're happy with that right?

Although you don't actually get a choice on what taxes you decide to pay do you. There's plenty of things I wouldn't pay for if I had the choice. But I don't. And nor do you.

You are free to choose not to have children, but you still need to contribute to the general welfare of society. Your taxes go towards education and healthcare - does this bother you? What about child benefits, should we take those away?

Ultimately you've made a choice to not have children but society still functions on the basis that most of us will have children. You're still part of society. You will want those children to take care of you when you're no longer productive. So you need to accept that it's not all about you, you, you and your lifestyle preferences.

We need to stop having babies not have even more. The world is over populated as it it’s irresponsible to have lots of children.

Cracking idea, as long as you’re happy to take care of yourself in your extreme old age, take your own rubbish to a tip, etc.

@FatKyle and you have a personal issue with that?

I don't understand how it's "fascism" to say we should have more babies and explore ways of incentivising family life.

I think it demonstrates how sheltered and privileged women's lives are that they imagine getting a tax break as "fascism". Maybe expand your horizons a bit.

@Cuppasoupmonster we do not create a generation just to expect caring duties in old age. The environment is a much bigger concern right now and if we carry on like we are a lot of us won’t make it to old age anyway.

*some women's lives

@Upthebracket22 "Wimmin" aren't just for procreation though lets not be silly here, the human species survives on birthing children. We are no different to animals. We have specific functions that enable our genes to continue on; its evolution (see. The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins).

That said, no women shouldn't HAVE TO have children and nobody is saying they should have to.

Why not? If we genuinely don't have people to do essential work then importing it from places with growing populations makes more sense from an ecological and economic perspective that breeding our own.

This thread is about artificially propping up birth rates to stop populations from shrinking.

But the birth rate has been declining for years hence why we have an ageing population. Even if this policy worked & the birth rate boomed (it won't) how will that plug the workforce shortage we have now?

I am saying populations should be allowed to shrink and maybe even encouraged to shrink.

Who has said otherwise? The issue we have is a bulge in the older generations but a shrink in the younger ones.

f we genuinely don't have people to do essential work then importing it from places with growing populations makes more sense from an ecological and economic perspective that breeding our own

But your not suggesting we pluck them from their own counties are you, they will need to be incentivised to come. So why come here when their own country may be booming or when Germany or Ireland looks more attractive?

Personally I think the days of expecting migrants to provide cheap labour are coming to an end.

We need to stop having babies not have even more

A society within dc is hardly going to be an innovative, progressive one though is it.

The world is over populated as it it’s irresponsible to have lots of children

The west is overpopulated because of longer life expectancy. Do you have a problem with countries in Africa with high birth rates then?

without dc!

This policy is based on the deeply racist idea of the "great replacement", the idea that whites are all being strategically replaced by browns. It's a far-right conspiracy theory and shouldn't be the basis for tax incentives. It was, however, the basis for the mass shootings in Christchurch (2019) and Buffalo (this year).

Is that why France has tax benefits to encourage larger families do you think?

Yes Africa needs to control population as well but women there probably don’t have easy access to contraceptives like we have here and a lot of men won’t wear condoms for cultural reasons. Sadly still has a long way to go on women’s rights.

The cabinet minister proposing this policy for the UK has explicitly said it's to reduce immigration. It won't actually achieve the stated aim of addressing current workforce issues.

Indeed.

This was exactly the kind of rhetoric employed by the Nazis in their drive to breed more canon fodder. The mothers expected to incubate those pregnancies were nothing more than vessels to this end, walking wombs, as it were.

It should hardly need pointing out why such a policy is highly undesirable in 21st-century Britain.

It should hardly need pointing out why such a policy is highly undesirable in 21st-century Britain.

But it does need pointing out. Why is it highly undesirable? All it's suggesting is that women get tax breaks for having more children. What's so wrong with that?

Yes Africa needs to control population as well but women there probably don’t have easy access to contraceptives like we have here and a lot of men won’t wear condoms for cultural reasons. Sadly still has a long way to go on women’s rights.

So which other countries need to control population?