To ask parents of DDs how you'd want this to be handled

[drelo2]

DS has just turned 15, he went over his friends house last night which he's done multiple times before and he's always been well behaved etc.

I had a message off the friends gf’s mum this morning saying the friend was asking her DD for nudes when the gf said no they made a group chat and kept asking and when she said no asking why she wouldn't, basically pestering her, apparently this was mainly the friend though. The friend did face time her and she did show them something but she told her mum it was to shut them up.

I'm furious with DS, I have spoken to him and hes blamed the friend for it and he asked if they could do something else and he said no, I obviously don't know if this is true and I suspect the friend will say the same about DS.

How would you want this to be handled?

He is not her friend or a friend to women, he is at best a bully and is likely a predator too.

He is a child.

I'm not excusing the behaviour, I have posted upthread outlining steps I would advise the OP to take, and expect the School to take, in terms of tackling this unacceptable behaviour head-on. But writing a 15 year old off as a "predator" based on a single incident is unhelpful. As adults our job is to enforce rules and boundaries but also educate and help teenagers to understand why their behaviour is wrong or unsafe.

A lot of adults who have experienced a world without the Internet don't understand just how very widespread and normalised this behaviour is among teenagers. As adults we know that doesn't make it ok, but they are continually bombarded by media telling them that it is ok, that its normal and everyone else is doing it so if they don't want to maybe there's something wrong with them! These are things I hear from kids all the time. As teenagers they are still learning, still figuring out their own values and boundaries and very easily influenced by their peers, social media and in many cases pornography which kids are accessing younger and younger. OP's DS needs consequences, absolutely, but he doesn't need condemnation.

I'd want to see the group chat and see for myself who had sent messages and what they said, if DS hasn't said anything in it then it's not his fault, if he has then it would depend upon what he specifically had said.
If he had said anything, he would be matched round to the girls house to apologise, and he would lose all technology until he earns back our trust, however long that may take. He'd also be grounded and not be in the company of these 'friends' again. He'd be made very aware of every aspect of what harassment is as well as sexual harassment and assault, and where that leads you as well as the fact that it's just not acceptable or nice.

As parents of the girl, I'd be tempted to inform the school and police, but this would be 100% my DD decision.

If your son insists that he didn't do anything and couldn't do anything to stop his friend then you should tell him that he is by his own admission too immature to be allowed access to a phone or be allowed on his own.

If he is so lacking in a moral compass that he would sit by and watch and let his alleged friend bully a girl into doing something sexual that she didn’t really want to, then he ought not to be allowed to see that friend. What if next time it’s in person? There is no evidence that he would step in to stop an assault or even leave.

If he is going to act like a child then he should not have access to young adult privileges like his item private communication and free time.

The only problem with that is the girl has also committed an offence so I wouldn't risk bringing the police into it for my DD. Even if it just ends up with her being questioned and NFA I wouldn't want her to go through that.

The issue I have with making him apologise in person:

the girl is going to feel, because girls are socialised into smoothing the waters and keeping the peace, like she has to accept the apology. Reinforcing for both of them that coercing someone into a sex act can be dealt with if they say they’re really sorry.

and we all know the cycle of abuse where the abuser says they’re really sorry, it won’t happen again, and the victim is persuaded to carry on the relationship.

@lljkk its a bit more than ‘unpleasant’!!!!
Ok the girl can remove herself but imo you’re not giving the boys anywhere near enough responsibility here!! The girl should remove herself I agree but it shouldn’t remove any of the responsibility from the boys here.

im the mother of 2DD and 1DS. I would make it personal, ask how he’d feel if it were you or his sisters facing this.
Discuss respect for all, including himself.
and of course some serious sanctions regarding phone use

From a legal website -
The Protection of Children Act 1978 (and its subsequent amendments) makes it illegal to take, permit to be taken, make, distribute, show, have in one’s possession, publish or cause to be published any indecent photograph or pseudo-photograph of a child (defined as someone under the age of 18 years old). The law is defined broadly to allow the criminal justice system to capture a wide variety of acts that represent child pornography. The punishments for child pornography are some of the most severe of this category of offence, with up to ten years’ imprisonment given to the worst offenders.

It’s not me referring to it as this, it’s the law 🤷‍♀️
As I’ve said upthread (but no one listens to this part) - I do not agree with the wording, it is horrific child sexual abuse - I can’t be more clear on my feelings 🤷‍♀️

BUT, the wording is there in law as child pornography - I can’t control that.

The only problem with that is the girl has also committed an offence so I wouldn't risk bringing the police into it for my DD. Even if it just ends up with her being questioned and NFA I wouldn't want her to go through that

she has been coerced into sending the pictures. She is a victim. Stop victim blaming.

This is why women don’t report sex offences, or abuse, or coercive control. When do you decide that an offence is “worth” going through the hassle of a report?

I would absolutely be supporting my daughter to make a police report. Every time.

This ^^

I'd bring fire and brimstone to the extent that he will think twice about asking for a nude picture at even 40 years old.

I don’t need telling anything.
I’m also not the only one to refer to this wording on this thread, yet you only seem to target me 🤔

The only problem with that is the girl has also committed an offence so I wouldn't risk bringing the police into it for my DD. Even if it just ends up with her being questioned and NFA I wouldn't want her to go through that.

I deal with these situations very frequently in school and the Police would not see the DD as having "committed and offence" due to the messages evidencing that she was repeatedly pestered before eventually sending the picture. IME the Police are not interested in criminalising children in these situations assuming it is an isolated incident, the goal is usually to educate them.

I'm aware of a young boy locally (a little younger than your DS) who was arrested and kept at the police station overnight on charges of taking and distributing indecent images in a similar circumstance. It's that serious for your son.

I'd also check if he has "disappearing messages" turned on on whatsapp (messages auto-delete after a period of time, I think 24h). Of course he could also just be deleting stuff. If he gets his phone back I'd probably be inclined to get his whatsapp on my computer (on whatsapp web) so I could see anything, at least for a while.

She posted an indecent image, that would be investigated. As I said it might well be NFA but not a pleasant experience.

You have every right to support you DD. I worked for a large regional police force, my DH was a senior police officer and we wouldn't.

100%

What they did was actually a crime - it needs the harshest punishment you can give.

I would ground him as he clearly doesn’t know how to behave appropriately in a social setting.

I’m sorry, though, this must be hard for you.

As a mum of DDs I would be reporting this to school and the police.

At 15 your DS is old enough to make a stand against his friends actions but it sounds as though no boundaries have been set by you and his dad so he is every bit as responsible for this as the instigator friend.

You said you tried to talk to him but he just said it was all friends fault. You don't TRY. You give your son a bloody good rollicking and explain the seriousness of this and if police are involved this sort of behaviour has the potential to tarnish his future.

You need to educate your son now otherwise this sort of behaviour can escalate. I can't believe how lacklustre you seem to appear from your posts about what your son has done.

The only problem with that is the girl has also committed an offence so I wouldn't risk bringing the police into it for my DD. Even if it just ends up with her being questioned and NFA I wouldn't want her to go through that

The police are not going to investigate or prosecute a child who shared an image because she was subjected to harassment and coercion. Don't be so fucking ridiculous.

The criminals here are the boys.

This is criminal behaviour and I'd be coming down on it like a ton of bricks. Hopefully the girl reports it.

If I was the parent of the girl I probably would have contacted the police. My hope/expectation of you/your son would be that would honestly comply with whatever that process worked out to.

I think if I was you/your son's parent, I would take away the phone, football, and possibly consider changing schools to get away from the other boy. And also maybe counseling for him, plus kitchen table conversations about this type of thing regularly. Some might consider that OTT but I do think it's pretty serious.

I'd want to see the group chat and see for myself who had sent messages and what they said, if DS hasn't said anything in it then it's not his fault, if he has then it would depend upon what he specifically had said.

No, saying nothing is absolutely not enough, not by a long chalk.

A decent boy/man would speak out against a friend they saw committing sexual offences, not just passively watch them do it.

Also, agree a protocol for him to get out of an out of control situation in future. You will come and get him on if he uses X codeword, and make everyone safe. He’s a child. Sometimes they need help, and he’s not responsible for his friend’s behaviour. Sure, we’d all like to think our kids would stand up to their friends, but we need to recognise that it’s hard. If he can’t stop his friends, he can get himself out of the situation. Obviously there’s the implications of leaving the poor girl to her fate, but it’s one fewer abuser if that’s the best he can do (and he can the TELL someone who can help her)

I wouldn’t focus on punishment. I’d focus on empowering him to prevent it happening again. If it does, you want him to be able to come to you for help, don’t you?

If the girl did actually show them something as he says then depending on what it was she too could be prosecuted for distributing child port is my understanding so I think the parents need to get together to sort this out and have a joint agreed approach.

*porn not port