Page 6 | To ask parents of DDs how you'd want this to be handled

drelo2 · 2022-10-09T12:36:17+00:00

DS has just turned 15, he went over his friends house last night which he's done multiple times before and he's always been well behaved etc. I had a message off the friends gf’s mum this morning saying the friend was asking her DD for nudes when the gf said no they made a group chat and kept asking and when she said no asking why she wouldn't, basically pestering her, apparently this was mainly the friend though. The friend did face time her and she did show them something but she told her mum it was to shut them up. I'm furious with DS, I have spoken to him and hes blamed the friend for it and he asked if they could do something else and he said no, I obviously don't know if this is true and I suspect the friend will say the same about DS. How would you want this to be handled?

Namechangehereandnow · 09/10/2022 16:00

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/10/2022 15:55

No. There isn't such a thing. It's child abuse. Full stop. Like I said I am out.

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I agree it’s horrific child sexual abuse. I agree the wording should be changed. But as it stands right now, it’s still called child pornography.
I’m out too as I don’t want to derail the thread any further.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/10/2022 16:00

Namechangehereandnow · 09/10/2022 15:58

I absolutely agree it needs to be changed, I don’t dispute that at all. It is horrific child sexual abuse.

My point is that a poster cannot simply state ‘there is no such thing as child pornography’. There is, it’s that simple. If the poster had made that statement, then added further words/info, it makes it a completely different post.

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Deary me. There isn't. For you to 'absolutely agree' and then in the next breath say it exists is a complete contridiction. Stop saying it now please.

ancientgran · 09/10/2022 16:01

As the mother of a daughter I'm not sure I'd want the police involved as I think that could be very traumatic for my DD although she is past this age now. I would want the boys' parents to be dealing with their sons, removal of tech/privileges and ensuring they don't have any images. I'd definitely want to end the bf/gf relationship if DD hadn't decided on that herself already and hoping to build up DDs confidence in saying no.

I think the idea of the school doing some sort of classes would also be a good idea.

Namechangehereandnow · 09/10/2022 16:02

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/10/2022 16:00

Deary me. There isn't. For you to 'absolutely agree' and then in the next breath say it exists is a complete contridiction. Stop saying it now please.

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I said I’m out.

NoMichaelNo · 09/10/2022 16:02

IronicElf · 09/10/2022 15:58

If this was my teenage DD I'd have called the police and asked for all of his tech, and friend's tech to be checked for photos of underage girls. I'd be pushing for a prosecution if there were photos, I'd be pushing for a harassment charge in any case.

I have zero tolerance for this shit. If these young men can't develop appropriate morals the easy way, they need to have it scared into them the hard way.

You can’t do any of that, real life isn’t an American TV show.

bellabasset · 09/10/2022 16:02

If I were the girl's dm I'd send you a statement detailing what I knew

milawops · 09/10/2022 16:03

I agree with a lot of PP about taking his phone, reading him the riot act and if he sees the other boy at football then tough luck, no more football. I have a son and I would be tearing his search history apart to see if anything like this had happened before.
However, I also have a daughter and whilst apologising may seem like the right thing to do, if it was my daughter and the little shit that had hassled and tried to coerce her tried to come round and apologise I'm not sure it would end well for anyone. Although if it were my daughter, you would have had the police on your doorstep by now

Tistheseason17 · 09/10/2022 16:03

OP - I suggest you re-read your post imagining it was your child that was being coerced to send explicit photos and how bullied and affected they would feel. Being part of it and allowing this poor treatment of the girl were shameful actions would he watch a sexual assault but say it was nothing to do with him because he didn't touch? Ask him that!

Then, stop minimising it.
If it was my son, I would ask school safeguarding lead to speak to him - get school to have proper session on child pornography. Stop his football ⚽️!!!

slowquickstep · 09/10/2022 16:04

drelo2 · 09/10/2022 14:36

I have said he can't see his friend but they will be seeing each other at school and football etc. I didn't mention anything at first so I didn't give him chance to delete anything but he had nothing in his photos or in his messages, so I assume he's probably left the group.

You really don't give a stuff do you ?

ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor · 09/10/2022 16:05

As a mum of two DD’s I would expect the boys family to contact me offering an apology and asking what I wanted done as a consequence. Depending on how much they harassed her it would be from grounding with no technology to having the police involved.

If the boys were genuinely sorry I would leave it at grounding and a warning of underage pictures.

Golaz · 09/10/2022 16:07

lljkk · 09/10/2022 13:47

I have a DD & DSs.

I'd talk thru with DS why this was unpleasant & he needs to tell his friends as much.

If DD were in that convo I'd be asking her why the heck she didn't get off the convo & stop letting herself be hassled. That's not blaming her, it's trying to upskill her to terminate the interaction faster & stand up for herself. Don't engage with people behaving like numpties.

It’s not “unpleasant” it’s a sex crime.

no one has asked for advice about what you would do as the mother of the DD. I can only assume you bring this up to deflect responsibility from the OP’s son- rape culture in action.

NumberTheory · 09/10/2022 16:07

I think you’ve done a good job so far, OP. One thing I would say though, is try and rein in your anger and give him space to talk about peer pressure around sex, what it’s like, how he feels about it, etc. Going off on one could put the fear of god into him for a while, but it won’t give him the tools he needs to actually be able to resist pressure from his friends or the empathy to see how it corrupts relationships.

If you can get him talking about what these situations are actually like from his perspective, you can help him think of and practice ways to say no, support the victim, distract, walk away, etc.

keeprunning55 · 09/10/2022 16:08

Don’t take the phone off your ds.
Don’t go to the police.

Talk to him. I expect the fact you now know will be mortifying for him. Let him know that it is completely unacceptable and if he does anything like this ever again there will be consequences-no pocket money/grounded etc.

Every time the police give talks on internet safety at my school, they repeatedly say that talking is the only way to go about this. Taking away phones doesn’t work.

Tistheseason17 · 09/10/2022 16:08

And.. my DH says, OP - report your son to the police- if they say it's all OK (hint - they won't!), then you can minimise his coercive, joint enterprise behaviour.

A decent young man would have protected the young girl - not stood by allowing to happen.

Mischance · 09/10/2022 16:10

I think the most important thing here is that you talk to your son about respecting people - all people whatever their gender, race, sexual orientation etc.

If he grasped that then he would have better understood how wrong his friend's behaviour was. Of course he needs to know that harassment of women and girls is wrong - but he also needs to know that harassment of any kind towards anyone at all is entirely unacceptable.

It is about learning respect and kindness.

You must feel so sad about all this OP, but I think you can all get past this. He needs to have the riot act read, to understand the seriousness and suitable punishments instated, and the school need to know what has happened, but please do not think you have bred a lifelong pervert and that he needs a label stuck on him. He is still your son and will be again - you just have a big hurdle to jump at the moment to get him back on the straight and narrow.

Teenagers make mistakes in their progress towards adulthood, and your son is involved in a serious and major error of judgment. With your support he can get past this and become someone you can be proud of.

TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 09/10/2022 16:11

giggly · 09/10/2022 13:44

As other have said and also go speak with his friends parents with the friend and your son there and then straight round as a group of parents to the gf house to apologise in person and hope that the gf parents do not contact the Police.

Jesus, that's the last thing most teenage girls would want!

@op, please don't do this! It would be horrible to have 6 of you turn up on her doorstep!

the little pair of dick heads need to have consent, coercion, sexual abuse, explained to them in excruciating detail, by you, his mum & someone at school.

(the girl needs to be taught that phones & other devices have OFF buttons)

both boys need their phones & devices taken off them and if the need them for YOUR convenience they can have non smart phones.

technology is killing our kids childhoods.

Mischance · 09/10/2022 16:13

NumberTheory · 09/10/2022 16:07

I think you’ve done a good job so far, OP. One thing I would say though, is try and rein in your anger and give him space to talk about peer pressure around sex, what it’s like, how he feels about it, etc. Going off on one could put the fear of god into him for a while, but it won’t give him the tools he needs to actually be able to resist pressure from his friends or the empathy to see how it corrupts relationships.

If you can get him talking about what these situations are actually like from his perspective, you can help him think of and practice ways to say no, support the victim, distract, walk away, etc.

I agree with all this.

I am the mother of 3 girls and tried to instil in them a sense of self-respect that I hope helped them to resist these sort of pleas. But this young man, however unacceptable his behaviour, needs the chance to have someone understand how he got into this situation and thereby to help him move on and grow.

Golaz · 09/10/2022 16:14

neverbeenskiing · 09/10/2022 14:07

I respectfully disagree with those saying the boys should be made to "apologise". If I were sexually harassed and abused, in the workplace for example, I would not want to have to suffer the further indignity of an in person apology from my perpetrator who I knew for a fact was only apologising because he'd been caught and told to. I see no value in forcing children to apologise generally, but for a minor friendship fallout or something like that it can be helpful to draw a line under things. This is too serious for that and our approach in school would be to tell the boys they were to stay away from this girl and if she reported that they were bothering her again there would be consequences. I would have her Teachers adjust seating plans so she didn't have to sit near them in classes or do group work with them. To have them apologise, given how girls and women are sociall conditioned to be peace makers and not make a fuss would likely result in her feeling she had to accept their apology and could send the message to them that it's not such a big deal.

100% this. Absolutely an apology should not form part of this response. It’s a criminal sexual offence. An apology to the victim is not appropriate.

Gunner1510 · 09/10/2022 16:15

I did try and talk to him about boundaries and the dangers of sending and receiving nudes

Sorry but doesn’t sound to me like you realise the seriousness of this, and the effects on that poor girl.
Pressuring females of any age to send nudes when they don’t want to is NOT OKAY and is the total opposite of consent. Think back to when you were her age, how would you feel? It’s completely disrespecting her and her boundaries, and women. Viewing them as objects, never mind the fact she’s a child, this is illegal and it is indecent images of children.

You need to HAVE a serious serious talk with your son and some consequences, not ‘try’ and have a talk with him. I would be fucking fuming if it was mine.

If I was you I’d hope my son had his own mind but appears not. Sorry I’d it’s harsh but I don’t think you grasp how serious this is!

gingertigercat · 09/10/2022 16:15

One thing that hasn't been mentioned are there are apps specifically created to hide these types of pictures. These apps look innocuous, like calculator apps and can be hidden in folders. Even if his WhatsApp and images don't have anything, doesn't mean it isn't there. Comb through everything. Secondly, does he really understand the impact this can have on the girl? I would make him watch something like the Zara McDermott BBC documentary on nude sharing and then write a full 2000 word minimum essay on why what he did was so wrong. Might help focus his mind.

sandytooth · 09/10/2022 16:16

drelo2 · 09/10/2022 14:36

I have said he can't see his friend but they will be seeing each other at school and football etc. I didn't mention anything at first so I didn't give him chance to delete anything but he had nothing in his photos or in his messages, so I assume he's probably left the group.

Let your sons school know.

This is serious

As476 · 09/10/2022 16:16

I still think you should have his phone. And no more football if he’ll see this “friend”. If he’s still minimising his behaviour then he absolutely doesn’t deserve a phone or to go to football. I’d also make the school aware and see if they can keep them apart?

does he realise how serious this is?

TheTurn0fTheScrew · 09/10/2022 16:17

If this were my 15yo DD the police and school would be notified. It's both a crime and a child safeguarding issue so it wouldn't occur to me not to. I'd be very concerned about the safety and wellbeing of my DD at school and the more I think about it the more I think the boys should be excluded from school at least temporarily while it is considered how best to safeguard the girl ensuring their paths don't cross, and I'd be advocating for that.

If I were you I'd do my best to remove all access to tech/social media including phone and other device removal. checking won't work - he'll hide/delete stuff. It's harsh because it's the main way kids socialise, but what he's done is sufficiently harmful that he'll have to put up with it.

And I think I'd be very keen to reduce time spent with this harmful peer group, so if you can enforce a period of home-school-home by picking him up for a few weeks I'd be doing that as well.

RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho · 09/10/2022 16:17

@Namechangehereandnow, @Sausagelove is correct. There is NO such thing as child pornography.

Using that word legitimises it. Like property porn of food porn.

It's not legitimate. It's illegal.

What we are discussing are images of child sexual exploitation (CSE) or child sexual abuse (CSA).

No one, ever should use the word porn to describe what happens when a child is in the image. It's a crime. It's assault. It's abuse.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/10/2022 16:20

RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho · 09/10/2022 16:17

@Namechangehereandnow, @Sausagelove is correct. There is NO such thing as child pornography.

Using that word legitimises it. Like property porn of food porn.

It's not legitimate. It's illegal.

What we are discussing are images of child sexual exploitation (CSE) or child sexual abuse (CSA).

No one, ever should use the word porn to describe what happens when a child is in the image. It's a crime. It's assault. It's abuse.

You can't tell some people.